How to Kill Off a Colony??

[Hivemaker.]

No not fire extinguisher,just bottle gas,same as we use to knock out bees to fill mini nuc's, or to knock out the queens when inseminating them.

 

[DorsetB]

I did use a fire extinguisher once, as I wore my wet suit under my bee suit, and a friend hosed me down from afar to stop me squelching too much as I sweated buckets and went through the hive from Hell.

The only reason I used it was we suddenly "remembered" about AI and CO2, and thought "why not."

We gaffa taped the entrance shut at night, then taped the lid to the box, turned the box over 90degrees, and as Veg suggests, went in through the OMF.

It did work, although it seemd to make a few of them drowsy rather than kill them.

I have used petrol in the pastl, but despite burning the frames and washing & cleaning the hive afterwards, I was convinced I could still smell the fumes for weeks afterwards.

I think I read somewhere that soapy water sprayed on the bees also works - does anyone know if it does?

 

[Gardenbees]

The problem with leaving a colony until April is that you will probably have grotty bees for another 2 months.

As for shaking bees off frames, if they are that bad, you and anyone nearby will be stung to buggeree.

Michael Bush has suggestions for divide and conquer.

Yes - there's a link to his page on requeening really unpleasant colonies here:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesrequeeninghot.htm

He is honest about the challenge of handling aggressive bees, and I sympathise with anyone in this dilemma. I would think there are two main choices:

1) petrol, as described. A shame, but don't beat yourself up over it too much, as you'll be saving other people from the danger of attack and also preventing the grotty colony's genetics from spreading (not to mention saving yourself from multiple stings and possible bee venom poisoning... I'm not allergic but got quite unpleasant symptoms from 50+ stings on one occasion);

2) divide & conquer. Choose a good foraging day when a lot of foragers are out (midday on one of these hot October days would be good), then wrap up well, smoke the colony well, and move the bb several metres away, enough to give you working space around the depleted bb without returning foragers finding it and having a go at you. Leave one or two combs in an otherwise empty box on the original site, with the lid on. Leave for an hour or so.

Smoke the displaced brood box quite well, and keep a jute cloth or similar on hand to cover the frames when you take the lid off, and a strip of card. To help with finding the queen, brace yourself, take the cloth off, and cover just two frames with a strip of card or cloth, so that the gap between them is covered and all the surrounding frames are exposed. Retreat for a bit, then when you return the Q is likely to be between the two shaded frames, i.e. under the strip of card. If you lift both these frames out together, complete with the card, there's a high likelihood that she'll be lurking in the dark space in between - all the other frame edges will be too exposed to light, which queens tend to avoid. Put the cloth quickly over the remaining frames to reduce angry cloud syndrome, and carry the two frames well away from both boxes to look. If she isn't there, dump the two frames in an empty box some distance away, with a jute cloth over the top, and check another two frames. Carry on until you find her, pick out the queen, squish her, then leave the bb overnight where it is, and unite it the next day with a strong colony. NB. this sound daunting, but the smaller and smaller bits of colony involved really takes the wind out of their sails, at least in my experience. It doesn't take as long as it sounds.

Meanwhile, wait until evening to seal up the box on the original site, which by then will have a lot of very irritable foragers in it, and take it some distance away if possible. Either open the box and let them drift, or give them the petrol treatment. This way, even if you use petrol, you'll only be killing the worst offenders, and you won't be writing off too many good frames.

Personally I'd try option 2) provided there was space available, and option 1) if there was an immediate major risk issue with neighbours etc. and no alternative sites for boxes. But I have to say that I would not normally set up an apiary unless there *was* an alternative place to juggle with really difficult colonies at short notice, because this is bound to happen at some stage unless you're very lucky with queens.

Having said all that, there probably could be a local beek who would take this on for you, but it might be difficult to locate them. Possibly someone on the Forum might step in if they're nearby.

PS - I understand the the OP is only interested in Option 1, but I think it's worth mentioning Option 2 for the sake of others who may find themselves in this situation and want a less drastic option....

 

[Hivemaker.]

Possibly someone on the Forum might step in if they're nearby.
.

They may do,but will frozen bees be much use to them,as they are now in the deep freeze.

 

[Gardenbees]

They may do,but will frozen bees be much use to them,as they are now in the deep freeze.

I was outlining the choices! It's too late for these bees now, but everyone seemed to be offering their responses so I thought I'd join in. Presumably new beekeepers try to learn from this kind of thing... I do!

 

[victor meldrew]

I was outlining the choices! It's too late for these bees now, but everyone seemed to be offering their responses so I thought I'd join in. Presumably new beekeepers try to learn from this kind of thing... I do!

Soapy water works fine !
VM

 

[Dewin Dwl]

CONCLUSION:
Two hours in the freezer slowed them down enough to set up a sift. Floor, door shut, with QEx then brood box on that. Shook the bees into that box and left two combs. Placed a QEx on that then a brood box above with the rest of the combs. Crownboard and lid on top. All being done inside a garage in semi darkness!! I then warmed the whole arrangement slowly with a small heater below the OMF. Lots of buzzing announced all back to the usual. Left for a couple of hours.

Lifted the top brood box onto a sheet of ply, trapping the majority of the bees. They were taken to the small & polite hive to be merged by the newspaper method.

Back in the garage I now have some scarey bees buzzing about but not many. Lifted the QEx and went looking for Q. Carefully lifted and separated the two combs but she was elusive, very quick. Shed dropped off the comb and got into the nooks and crannies of the brood box/floor joint. It is now very late Sunday evening and I get up at 0500hrs for work. So, lid on, hive into freezer and leave.

Monday evening after work I retrieve the hive. Q dead complete with about 100 bees. So, Q destroyed with minimal killing, small & polite hive has had a good addition of bees complete with some useful brood comb & stores. Now all I need to do is reorganise the comb this weekend. I'm sure it'll be a little crazy because of the bees I've added but this will be the last visit inside before a big feed-up and final bed-down. (Its still quite mild up here).

Thanks for the ideas, thoughts & criticism. Helped me resolve a nasty situation.

 

[greatbritishhoney]

Q destroyed with minimal killing, .

Good on you. Not an easy task.

 

[VEG]

Well done at least it worked.

 

[xgeordie]

Yes - well done. Good outcome.

 

[susbees]

Yes - well done. Good outcome.

 

[oliver90owner]

Well, at least the original aim was not needed. Can't really accept/understand the mentality/ability of people, calling themselves beekeepers, who would ever kill off a whole colony for no better reason than to remove the queen. Not beekeepers in my book.

RAB

 

[Erichalfbee]

Don't know. It must be very frightening if you are a beginner faced with such aggressive bees.
If help was offered and refused then I would agree with you RAB

Do people consider that beekeepers are born or made?
My husband has an intuitive gentle way with the bees though he doesn't really know why he does what I ask him to do and seem incapable of learning.
I, on the other hand, am learning what and why but tend to "flap" more.
Perhaps it's that extra X chromosome

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

Good result Dewin, well done

 

[greatbritishhoney]

Well, at least the original aim was not needed. Can't really accept/understand the mentality/ability of people, calling themselves beekeepers, who would ever kill off a whole colony for no better reason than to remove the queen. Not beekeepers in my book.

RAB

I think the problem with beekeeping is that it is so accessible at the moment, and that leads to inexperienced people being boxed into a corner by their bees and having to take drastic action.
I agree that sometimes people are too keen on destruction before exploring the alternatives. Luckily not so in this case.

 

[Adam]

Maybe I missed it but nobody mentioned chloroform. Yates I think describe it fairly well. You would probably need to take your passport to the chemist and a copy of the book by way of an explanation, but it stupifies the bees and allows you to swap the queens or perform other manipulations.

Adam

 

[greatbritishhoney]

Maybe I missed it but nobody mentioned chloroform. Yates I think describe it fairly well. You would probably need to take your passport to the chemist and a copy of the book by way of an explanation, but it stupifies the bees and allows you to swap the queens or perform other manipulations.

Adam

I think it may be a little harder to get hold of chloroform these days

 

[oliver90owner]

Luckily not so in this case.

GBH, You are so considerate to others. I might just remind you to read the thread title.

RAB

 

[greatbritishhoney]

Luckily not so in this case.

GBH, You are so considerate to others.

Aww, shucks

I guess what I meant was that it is good to see someone asking for advice, listening to the opinions given and then taking a relatively non-lethal course of action.
Better than reading a "my extermination went horribly wrong" thread.

 

[user 6228]

I found this thread very informative and gained at least three ways of anaethestising bees.
Co2
Cold
Chloroform
It prompted me to read up on the effect of co2 and found n2 is also used , btw. Chloroform has less permanent effects on the bees than n2 or co2.

Thus if I get in real bind I will use the argon or argon /co2 mix i use for welding