How to get the bees through the Queen Excluder

[MikeT]

I have one hive with 7 frames of brood, and 4 full frames of stores and they will not go through the queen excluder. I have tried removing the QE which has made no difference, also tried additional insulation and again no effect. The super is filled with drawn comb from last year which was from this colony. I have been through the BB no new eggs as the combs are full, no QCs, and I believe the queen has stopped laying because their is no room. The queen has been very difficult to find in this colony, so I am not certain whether she is there but I have had this problem before with this colony in finding the Q.

Any suggestions of what else I can do. I am thinking about another super either with drawn comb or foundation.

Mike

 

[Finman]

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Hive is too small to occcupye the next box. They try to protect brood and keep them warm.
Put the second box under the brood box. They move to the box when they are ready.

 

[Finman]

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What are those 4 frames of stores? Old honey or new?
If there are old honey, take 2 frames off and give two foundations. Stores take now 1/3 out of brood box.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

will go through the excluder when they are ready to do so and not before - they obviously, as Finny says too busy with the brood to faff around going up.
There's a lot of talk about why bees won't move up (new foundation is the usual obsession) but IMHO most of it is rubbish - they'll move up when they arre ready to do so and not before

 

[Finman]

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It is quite difficult to estimate, when one box or two box colony needs more soace and when it is ready to occupye a new box. That is why it is better to give second box under the brood. Weathers change all the time.

4 frames stores. So the colony cannot be very strong. Half of box is used for store heating.

It is better if the colony has douple brood. Those 4 store frames down plus foundations. And 4 frames of foundations upstairs. If super is moved to brood box, it makes extra mess. And not now super.

And mesh floor closed. Weathers are not so warm in Britain that hives need mesh floor ventilation. Not at least one box hive.

 

[beeno]

Hi Mike,
I am so glad that you have posted on just this issue. The forum consensus would appear to be that they draw comb and move stores up when they are ready. Well, from what I have seen it ain't necessarily so..., as they have an alternative SWARMING. It sounds to me that she might be gone. However, if you think not, I would extract three brood frames of stores which may stop them swarming and free up some space in the short term. Either replace the frames after extraction or provide them with drawn comb. Good luck with the colony.

 

[Nige.Coll]

I removed the QE ended up with some brood in the super but it worked.
I store my frames wet and when placed above a qe they are on them like a shot.
Some suggest a light spray with some syrup.

If space is worrying you remove some stores from the brood box add foundation and keep the frames for adding to nucs or for winter feed or extract.
Handy to have a few frames of stores to hand the june gap is coming.

 

[itma]

...
There's a lot of talk about why bees won't move up (new foundation is the usual obsession) but IMHO most of it is rubbish - they'll move up when they arre ready to do so and not before

Mr J and I do have different opinions on some 'not going up' issues.

However, even I don't think "new foundation" is a problem. Old foundation seems rather less attractive than new - hence some folk 'refreshing' old stuff with a gentle application of a hairdryer.

Where I have seen a problem a few times (and its usually only a problem for beginners) is with a new box combined with new frames all with foundation. Its not something that the bees will reliably 'take to' quickly.
My suggestion for beginners to avoid the possibility of this problem (not 'necessary' just a precaution) is to put their brand new box under the brood for a few weeks, to have the bees knock the newness out of it and make it smell like part of their hive. Then when it goes up top, it has been readily accepted.
There is a second beginner advantage to this pre-nadiring, in that if the bees start to run out of space in the brood, rather than swarm immediately they will simply start to expand down into the new box. Naturally, seeing this starting to happen is a prompt to the beginner that (s)he was a little late in putting the super on above, and should do this immediately.
I agree with Mr J that this should not be necessary - but I do think it is a useful approach for the beginner with all-new kit to help reduce the risk of a swarm before getting going properly.


However, this (and foundation, new or old) has nothing to do with the OP's problem of bees not going up onto drawn comb.
One suggestion not previously mentioned would be to ensure the coverboard holes were closed and then to put a square of Celotex/Kingspan/etc between coverboard and roof. Making the box warmer definitely makes it more attractive.

/// Added: If it were a new or unused QX, I'd be doing a sanity check on the hole size, apart from anything else.

 

[Finman]

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To make combs or foundations attractive does not help. Main thing to bees is that they keep their brood warm. When you add too early new box over brood, heat escapes to loft and bees' life becomes more difficult.

"Encouraging" bees to a new box is rubbish. They just don't have "courage" to do that. Sometimes it seems to work and sometimes not.

 

[drstitson]

as per finman - colony too small to need upstairs.

super only needs to go on when running out of brood space downstairs (not blocked by old stores).