How many frames of brood going into winter?

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honeylover

New Bee
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Jun 12, 2010
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uk
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National
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Hi, I'm new to beekeeping this year. Did a final check today as weather nice and temp 16 here in Yorkshire. Bees are in a national with only two frames of brood today, the rest stores. Last checked just over 2 weeks ago and there was brood over 4 frames. Couldn't find the queen or eggs today (although am still rubbish at seeing eggs unless in bright sunshine). There was lots of capped brood on the 2 frames and the bees seemed fine, not unsettled as I think they may be if queenless. Bees also still happily bringing in pollen and seem pretty busy. I'm now worried that I've overfed them (as 2 of the brood frames from last check seem to have been replaced with stores) or there's something else wrong. I have been feeding with sugar syrup 2:1 until the last time I checked them as there was still empty frame space. Any ideas?
 
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What have you done for winter?

First you chould restrict the wintering space. if the hive had a month ago 6 frames of brood, it probably needs only 6 frames for wintering. And now those wintering frames shoul be full capped winter food.

How big was your hive in August?
 
Thanks for the reply. Sorry I probably wasn't clear. There are 11 frames plus dummy board in the brood box, all frames are now full but only two are brood with the remaining 9 frames choc full with stores. Is this enough brood at this time of year or have the bees filled too many frames with stores leaving not enough room for brood?
 
"How many frames of brood going into winter?"

there should be none. i'm not saying that is how much should be present now BUT the idea is that brood rearing essentially ceases for winter.



why did you inspect when a heft should have been enough to assess stores. all you have done is chill the brood that you have.
 
Just wasn't confident about how heavy hive should be when hefted and thought that as such a nice day with ok temps and bees out flying and very active it'd be ok to do a final check. Sound like wrong thing to do and have just worried myself perhaps needlessly - guess I'll learn.
 
I think he answered your question at the start Doc ... 'new to beekeeping this year'

It's usually end of Sept early Oct when I stop lifting brood frames and any lifted at this time are few and only to assess colony size and stores.
I will say that I personally would not have been feeding a hive of four frames (already seven frames of stores).

One of my colonies was quite weak last winter, covering just three frames but they had plenty of stores (mine overwinter on brood and half) They came through well and healthy though I admit I was concerned about them. My colonies are generally four or five frames of bees when shut up for winter.

It's a bit late to do much now. I hope it turns out well for you.
 
Dr S is right. There is nothing you can do about it now. It is now all about bees surviving the winter, however many there may be. If there is not enough you will find out in spring or perhaps later in the winter. The only thing you were likely to achieve with an inspection of the hive, as you have apparently done, is, as Dr S says, to lose wintering bees. Losing the most important bee is also a risk you should not be taking.

All inspections should be done to achieve a goal. Think why you inspected them as you did, what you needed to ascertain from the inspection (prior to carrying it out) and whether you achieved your aim (what could be done to rectify anything you found). When you have done that your answers will be 'don't really know', 'don't know' and 'achieved nothing'.

Now, I suggest you tuck them up ready for the winter and cross fingers and toes, if you think that would help them. With no empty frame space there is nothing you can do. I would think they they have almost 10 frames of stores (honey/sugar syrup/pollen) which should be enough under normal circumstances to provide adequate heating through the winter months and then at least enough to start brooding. I would suspect that your two frames of brood is less than that, as most newbies over-estimate the amount of brood in the hive.

Get some practice at gently hefting the hive through the winter, for experience next year.

Are you intending treating with oxalic acid around Christmas/early new year? Have you/will you have some fondant ready should they need feeding later in the winter? And the means to deliver it, of course, with insulation around/over it if fed above the crownboard.

Bees could be bringing in small amounts of stores right up to Christmas, or it could stop tomorrow - I hear they have snow on the eastern side of the USA today, so we may be getting some much cooler weather after the next few days. Depends on our wind direction, I daresay, but prevailing wind direction is from there... We'll just have to take what comes!

RAB
 
It was air temp 16 and positively warm at one apiary today. I broke into a sweat wire fencing the hives. Bees were bringing in pollen akin to a summer's day. It has been one heck of a mild autumn. Queens are still laying. Bees are taking syrup. It's true that a cold snap could be around the corner but my bees and I are taking advantage of the exceptionally good conditions!
 
Thanks for replies. Yes I'm new this year, did my winter course last year but still unsure about some things. My association are really helpful but nice to get some instant answers here rather than wait to speak to someone. Was worrying as have read a good bit about bees starving and problems of going into winter without sufficient stores. Will now learn my lesson to not be nosey and to leave the bees in peace. Plan to oxalic acid in Dec so will also put on fondant then just in case. Really very warm and lovely here today so hopefully I haven't caused too much damage.
 
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Nothing wrong if you look inside the hive, what is going there. It teaches more than anything else.
 
Don't be too hard on yourself Honeylover, that winter course hasn't had time to sink in and much refreshing of notes is required. Just so it won't come as a shock, the second year can be quite interesting too ;)

This has been anything but a normal year so the usual pattern of things hardly applies, some have lost swarms this Oct.
Inspecting today? Not a big deal with the current temps, indeed, warmer than many days in the (lack of) summer. I was in my hives today, though just removing eke's. It was warm and the bees were happy, even at 8:30 this morning and when it was still raining, they were piling out in numbers. My comment was based on my own circumstances and my own approach. You will soon learn to know your bees, they will show you what you need to do and learning that is the best part of this hobby.

I keep a super per hive as their excess stores, any honey taken does not include these supers. I've found this system saves on feeding in both winter and spring. Consider your colony and it's stores before feeding 'because that's what is done.' Once I've stolen their honey I leave them well alone apart from treatments and some entrance watching.

Good luck with your bees.
 

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