How long from emergence, before a virgin / cast swarms?

[elainemary]

Does anyone know how long after emergence a virgin flies with a cast swarm? I’m presuming at least a couple of days is needed for her wings and cuticle to harden and for her to be recognised as a queen ie some of her pheromones to develop. Think she’s not recognised fully as a queen for about 4 days then her pheromones gradually increase until mating when they change further…and it’s documented that bees hold other cells back presumably for this reason.

Context is I’d reduced a open swarm cell to one, removed the Q to a Nuc, then taken down emergency cells when my cell was sealed which was 4 days after first seeing swarm preparations. Was going away for a 4 days and suspected more emergency cells would be built, I calculated my chosen cell would emerge the day before I got back and in hindsight I should have put it into another Nuc but didn’t have one to hand.

Checked yesterday and she’d emerged, hive was v quiet & contented compared to before I left, however I did find another open cell but it looked like it may have been chewed back but can’t be sure whether a another queen has emerged or not. Surprised as I did shake bees off combs when reducing cells to one. I took down more emergency cells yesterday.

Unsure whether they’ve cast swarmed. I’ve taken all new emergency cells down, based on how calm the colony seemed and only sealed brood left. Can add a test frame later I guess.

Hence the question how long after emergence before a virgin flies / casts?

 

[pargyle]

How long is a piece of string ?... The answer is usually a couple of days from what I've experienced but in a situation where you are not sure exactly when the second virgin emerged I would suggest that the first virgin went almost as soon as the second one emerged - or possibly even before. The bees know when a queen is about to emerge and can hold her back for as long as they wish .. if the colony was intent on throwing a caste then who knows what the little beggars will do.

It's pretty academic now anyway ... what's done is done and you just have to deal with what's left.

 

[elainemary]

How long is a piece of string ?... The answer is usually a couple of days from what I've experienced but in a situation where you are not sure exactly when the second virgin emerged I would suggest that the first virgin went almost as soon as the second one emerged - or possibly even before. The bees know when a queen is about to emerge and can hold her back for as long as they wish .. if the colony was intent on throwing a caste then who knows what the little beggars will do.

It's pretty academic now anyway ... what's done is done and you just have to deal with what's left.

Thanks, there’s still loads of bees. If takes a couple of days I don’t think they will have had time to cast. As you say what is done is done but always like to do the post mortem and learn for next time! And the time after

 

[Finman]

You need not to calculate. The first swarm queen emerges and the cast leaves inside two days. It needs that other queens peep in their cells. When they peep, they are ready to fly and the cast is ready to go.

If you want to control swarming, this is too late to do that.

Yes, next time will come, what ever it is. But next year.

 

[elainemary]

You need not to calculate. The first swarm queen emerges and the cast leaves inside two days. It needs that other queens peep in their cells. When they peep, they are ready to fly and the cast is ready to go.

If you want to control swarming, this is too late to do that.

Yes, next time will come, what ever it is. But next year.

Thanks that makes perfect sense. 2 days was the answer I was looking for and thanks for reminding me they need to hear piping.