How do you know when your area is being overpopulated with bees

[Jonathan01]

I live in a small hamlet of about 30 houses. All with lovely gardens, with lots apple trees and plum trees. Lawns all well mown (so very little dandelion). I have 8 hives and about 1/2 a mile away there are another 4. There are no nearby crops, all the fields around us are grass for sheep. I plan to expand my apiary to 10 this year - at what point does it become a problem with overpopulation and my bees 'pushing out' the solitary bees and hover flies? Perhaps I have passed that stage already??

 

[Boston Bees]

If you are asking for a specific number of hives at which point it would become a problem for other species, there is no possible way of answering your question. We can't know. We aren't even sure if there is an impact, and if there is, it would be on a gradual sliding scale.

But if there are plenty of gardens, hedges and trees in your area of the world (within 3 miles of your apiary) then honestly, I wouldn't worry about it. If you lived in some kind of arable desert it might be different.

 

[Amari]

I live in a small hamlet of about 30 houses. All with lovely gardens, with lots apple trees and plum trees. Lawns all well mown (so very little dandelion). I have 8 hives and about 1/2 a mile away there are another 4. There are no nearby crops, all the fields around us are grass for sheep. I plan to expand my apiary to 10 this year - at what point does it become a problem with overpopulation and my bees 'pushing out' the solitary bees and hover flies? Perhaps I have passed that stage already??

Where are you?

 

[user 819]

Over population of bees per apiary may be detectable once you notice average colony production (honey) reducing. Pollinators will find sources bees don't use very much.

 

[madasafish]

Beekeepers tend to encourage planting of pollinator plants and trees. Not only by themselves but by their friends and honey customers, and their local council.

So too many bees in one area may be far too few in another.

And remember one tree with pollen and nectar is probably worth 0.5acres of flowers. So if you are in a woody area then more hives can be supported.
If you have a National Trust Garden nearby with trees, then even more hives.

How long is a piece of string?

And some pollinators : bumbles and moths pollinate when bees do not forage. And with longer tongues, on plants bees do not forage on.

The piece of string grows longer.

 

[StephenT]

I live in a big hamlet of 9 million and was browsing through this research the other day. Need to spend a bit more time on it though. They took the hive density from Beebase which will probably not be accurate and can’t pinpoint where I live on the map which is a shame.

https://www.researchgate.net/profil...-fungi-and-bees.pdf?origin=publication_detail

 

[Jonathan01]

Where are you?

Lancashire

 

[Jonathan01]

Beekeepers tend to encourage planting of pollinator plants and trees. Not only by themselves but by their friends and honey customers, and their local council.

So too many bees in one area may be far too few in another.

And remember one tree with pollen and nectar is probably worth 0.5acres of flowers. So if you are in a woody area then more hives can be supported.
If you have a National Trust Garden nearby with trees, then even more hives.

How long is a piece of string?

And some pollinators : bumbles and moths pollinate when bees do not forage. And with longer tongues, on plants bees do not forage on.

The piece of string grows longer.

Lots of trees around here - I have a small forest (about an acre) right next to the apiary - so moving to 10 hives probably not an issue.

 

[pargyle]

Lancashire

If you add yourself to Beebase it will tell you how many apiaries there are within flying distance of your bees ... Get out then, walk around and look at what forage there is, Bees can fly 3-5km for the right sort of forage and Lancashire is not a county renowned for mono-crops - it's a big county and your specific location may have a bearing on how much forage is available - only you can determine that.

The fake new that has been put out (mainly in the USA) that honey bees are detrimental to other pollinator species is just that - Fake News. It is unlikely that the hive density where you are is going to have any effect other than to improve the crops on fruit trees, soft fruit and allotment crops in the vicinity.

 

[pargyle]

Lots of trees around here - I have a small forest (about an acre) right next to the apiary - so moving to 10 hives probably not an issue.

Depends on what sort of trees there are in it ...

Look up Bee Friendly trees and shrubs in a Google search ... there's a list on the RHS site - and start tree spotting ... it's also useful to keep a note for your future reference what comes into blossom and the date it flowers. Tells you what you should be expecting your bees to be bringing in and when - being prepared with supers when there are potential nectar flows is good beekeeping.

 

[gmonag]

A phenological approach (referencing the flowering of plants, rather than a calendar) is probably best.

Fun fact: The Japanese Sakura (Cherry Blossom) festival is so important, not just because it is stunningly beautiful, but it also signifies the time to plant rice.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The fake new that has been put out (mainly in the USA) that honey bees are detrimental to other pollinator species is just that - Fake News. It is unlikely that the hive density where you are is going to have any effect other than to improve the crops on fruit trees, soft fruit and allotment crops in the vicinity.

 

[madasafish]

Just had an argument (minor disagreement) with one on FB.

He claimed that the UK required dog licenses to keep dogs and chicken licenses to keep chickens (Untrue) so why not bee licenses.

Obviously quoting a script - I pointed out he was wrong on both so why should I trust a word he said.
Silence.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

The simple answer is to not go on FB. And to DEFINITIELY not get your news from there!

 

[Amari]

The fake new that has been put out (mainly in the USA) that honey bees are detrimental to other pollinator species is just that - Fake News. It is unlikely that the hive density where you are is going to have any effect other than to improve the crops on fruit trees, soft fruit and allotment crops in the vicinity.

I recently wrote an article on honey bees damaging biodiversity for our local BKA Newsletter. I didn't come across any USA references.
1. London: Honey trap as city hives leave wild bees at risk
2. Brussels Times 14 Oct 2020 (link too long fo me to type out)
3. Sweden (OSR): https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/full10.1098/rspb.2016.1641
4. France (mediterranean scrubland): Controlling the impact of the managed honeybee on wild bees in protected areas
5. Tenerife: Honeybees disrupt the structure and functionality of plant-pollinator networks
6. Paris: Wild pollinator activity negatively related to honey bee colony densities in urban context

These were controlled studies of wild pollinator frequency in areas with high v. low beehive density. Hardly fake news....

 

[Paddington]

I don’t often comment, but I just want to point out that all the insecticides used by your neighbours are probably doing a much better job forcing out (killing) most of the other pollinators. I wouldn’t worry about your bees just yet.

Perhaps I’m looking through my rose tinted (auto-corrected to Tinder on three occasions) spectacles, but as an increasingly curmudgeonly 30 something year old, even I remember the insects on the car windshield. Now I only see a horse fly if I hit a horse.

 

[pargyle]

I recently wrote an article on honey bees damaging biodiversity for our local BKA Newsletter. I didn't come across any USA references.
1. London: Honey trap as city hives leave wild bees at risk
2. Brussels Times 14 Oct 2020 (link too long fo me to type out)
3. Sweden (OSR): https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/full10.1098/rspb.2016.1641
4. France (mediterranean scrubland): Controlling the impact of the managed honeybee on wild bees in protected areas
5. Tenerife: Honeybees disrupt the structure and functionality of plant-pollinator networks
6. Paris: Wild pollinator activity negatively related to honey bee colony densities in urban context

These were controlled studies of wild pollinator frequency in areas with high v. low beehive density. Hardly fake news....

" However, the findings are often inconsistent between different studies because the underlying ecological processes are not well understood and obviously depend on the local situation, including region9, habitat type and season5,10,11,12, or the degree of dietary specialisation in the wild bee population13. In the absence of clear evidence of the underlying ecological processes, and without specific guideline or legislation on this issue, protected land managers remain unaware of the potential threat high-density beekeeping poses to their nature conservation efforts. Uncertainty also fuels the debate among bee biologists "

I rest my case ....

 

[Amari]

" However, the findings are often inconsistent between different studies because the underlying ecological processes are not well understood and obviously depend on the local situation, including region9, habitat type and season5,10,11,12, or the degree of dietary specialisation in the wild bee population13. In the absence of clear evidence of the underlying ecological processes, and without specific guideline or legislation on this issue, protected land managers remain unaware of the potential threat high-density beekeeping poses to their nature conservation efforts. Uncertainty also fuels the debate among bee biologists "
I rest my case ....

Of course there is uncertainty and and variability. Not everywhere is over populated with beehives!

I rest my case: OTT to claim 'Fake news' when I quote papers published in respected journals such as Nature. Let's have debate, not Trumpism....

 

[pargyle]

Of course there is uncertainty and and variability. Not everywhere is over populated with beehives!

I rest my case: OTT to claim 'Fake news' when I quote papers published in respected journals such as Nature. Let's have debate, not Trumpism....

Actually I can only get one link to work properly, the Times article I can only see the first bit of and it appears to be quoting another article not scientific papers.. From what little I can see they are isolated studies that you seem to be extrapolating to suggest there IS a general problem with honeybee colonies affecting the other pollinator species. If anything is Trumpian then it is that premise that is flawed and is fake news being picked up by people who appear to have a vested interest in making waves....

 

[rook66]

I live in a small hamlet of about 30 houses. All with lovely gardens, with lots apple trees and plum trees. Lawns all well mown (so very little dandelion). I have 8 hives and about 1/2 a mile away there are another 4. There are no nearby crops, all the fields around us are grass for sheep. I plan to expand my apiary to 10 this year - at what point does it become a problem with overpopulation and my bees 'pushing out' the solitary bees and hover flies? Perhaps I have passed that stage already??

The bees will let you know when the area is over populated, swarming, reduced crop, temper, in my own case, when my hives go over a certain number, the swarming takes off, how do the bees know when the area is over crowded? It could also be environmental, power lines, air pollution. There's a lot of reading on the problem on the net.
https://www.beeculture.com/a-closer-look-tarsal-glands-footprint-pheromone/