How do i move a colony from a Langstroth to a National

[Cedar]

Hi, My partner and myself along with my father are newby bee keepers. In my Fathers eagerness he bought a Langstroth as his first hive, he then realized most people in our area use Nationals, so his second hive is a national as are our 2 hives. The Langstroth is proving rather awkward to manage as I help my dad when he is not well, and we feel that for ease of use it would be a good idea to move the colony to a national without reeking too much havok.

Thanks in advance

 

[Swarm]

I was toying with the idea of trying a Langstroth. I moved quite a few full supers around today and considered how much heavier they would be, so I'll stick with nationals.

You can buy or make frame converters that will take a national frame and get these drawn in your Langstroth or above, before transferring.

 

[Black Comb]

I suggest

Lang hive on bottom
Piece of plywood bigger than both hives with largish hole in middle
Nat on top with some frames with drawn comb if possible.

When the queen moves up to the top box and is laying well you can put a Q/E between the 2 (ensuring she is in nat box) and 3 weeks later all your lang brood will have hatched and you can take it away.

 

[richardbees]

Swarm,

doesn't answer the question though, does it?

 

[Cedar]

Thanks Swarm for your quick reply. I hadn't thought of doing that. My partner had thought of adding a National brood box with a temporary adapter so the bees can over winter with 2 brood boxs. Then in the spring when thye Queen is in the National box, remove the Langstroth box.
Or is my other half being too clever to do it this way.
{he is a chippy}

Thanks again

 

[region2]

shook swarm?

R2

 

[Mike a]

My partner had thought of adding a National brood box with a temporary adapter so the bees can over winter with 2 brood boxs. Then in the spring when thye Queen is in the National box, remove the Langstroth box.
Or is my other half being too clever to do it this way.
{he is a chippy}

Thanks again

Ply template at the top (9mm ply)
Brown - National
Template in the middle
Green - Langstroth

I would keep them in the Langstroth for the rest of this year and then add the ply template and National on top in March/April next year or when the weather starts to pick up again. Keep them condensed for the winter or they will follow the heat and unless the National is full of drawn frames and stores they will struggle to make it through Winter.

 

[sugarbush]

What do you find awkward about the Lang? Not criticism; just curiosity because it is the standard for the bulk of the industrialized world.

It is always nice to have all your equipment interchangeable, but for the minuscule amount of time that a single hive gets worked in a season it may be worth while just to keep the lang.

If you absolutely wanted to go all BN I would just sell the lang and buy a new package for the BN.

 

[BBG]

What do you find awkward about the Lang? Not criticism; just curiosity because it is the standard for the bulk of the industrialized world.

It is always nice to have all your equipment interchangeable, but for the minuscule amount of time that a single hive gets worked in a season it may be worth while just to keep the lang.

Always find it strange that some are able to lift the BS supers with ease but the Langstroth is way beyond.

Can understand it to a point when numerous colonies are being used and lone working involved.

Do not understand why someone who is unwell, elderly or infirm can lift a National super rather than taking half the frames out of a Langstroth, placing in a box and taking to the car/shed/kitchen followed by another journey for the remainder.

This cuts down the journeys, the strain and the stress IMHO.

 

[Cedar]

Thanks for all replies. Will probably go for the board conversion as we have already considered that method. I accept the point about leaving it till the spring, tho' we are hoping to build all 4 colonies up to 2 brood boxes over the winter as advised by our Mentors at Blackhorse.

With regard as to why, as I said ease of use. I didn't say I could lift a full National Super I'm talking about the routine checks on a hive. I am only a slight 5' and I find the individual frames heavy. Especially single handed trying to remove drones with an uncapping comb.

Now don't go telling me to go to the gym to build up my muscles

This colony have always been a stroppy lot and get very antsy if bashed and crashed. They hate my dad with a vengance and only tollerate my partner if I do most of the handling, prefer a womans touch But hay I digress that's another story.

 

[Black Comb]

Yes, forgot to say I've always done mine in the spring.

 

[Cedar]

We have been thinking and wondered what size hole would be best in the adapter board one in the middle say 3" in diamiter or expose the whole of the bottom of the top brood box.

Thanks again for all your advice

 

[Black Comb]

The bigger the better.
I've done this a few times (nat to lang) and made the biggest hole I could without compromising the outer dimensions of either box.

And one more tip, when you put the Q/e on watch out for queen cells at the bottom of the bottom box frames.

 

[Spadaman]

I have a similar problem - friend that I work with has Langstroths and I have Nationals.

The board method works fine ( I have used this to unite swarms/castes ) but another easy way is to get National brood frames and fit 1.5" screws to the ends of the top bar - better to pilot drill the top bar to prevent it splitting. Adjust the screws to give the same length as the Langstroth top bar.

Place these frames (with new foundation) in the Langstroth brood box and let the girls do their work. Do this again over a few weeks gradually replacing the Langstroth frames with the Nationals. When all the frames are Nationals remove the screws and place in National box.

Having worked with both Langstroths & Nationals I prefer the Nationals for their long frame lugs - much easier to grasp one handed when necessary.

 

[drstitson]

"fit screws to the ends of the top bar"

I do the same to use DB frames in MD/LS hives.

 

[sugarbush]

Can you get Beequick or Honey Robber in the UK? The fastest and easiest way would be to place the lang on top of the national and throw a fume board on, driving all the bees down into the national. Then reverse the boxes and place a queen excluder on top of the lang box, (to keep the queen from going back down into it) the national on top of the excluder, and leave it like that until everything in the lang emerges, then just remove the lang.

No screwing frames or waiting months until the queen moves up...

 

[Cedar]

How do you use the fume board and what fumigant do you use.
Thanks

 

[Black Comb]

I have a similar problem - friend that I work with has Langstroths and I have Nationals.

The board method works fine ( I have used this to unite swarms/castes ) but another easy way is to get National brood frames and fit 1.5" screws to the ends of the top bar - better to pilot drill the top bar to prevent it splitting. Adjust the screws to give the same length as the Langstroth top bar.

Place these frames (with new foundation) in the Langstroth brood box and let the girls do their work. Do this again over a few weeks gradually replacing the Langstroth frames with the Nationals. When all the frames are Nationals remove the screws and place in National box.

Having worked with both Langstroths & Nationals I prefer the Nationals for their long frame lugs - much easier to grasp one handed when necessary.

I just cable tie (or garden wire) the top bars of langs to the top bars of the nats.

 

[sugarbush]

How do you use the fume board and what fumigant do you use.
Thanks

Looking at various suppliers I see you have Bee Quick in the UK. You apply it to the fume board, lay the fume board on top of your box like an outer cover and watch the bees run out the bottom. In full sun all the bees will leave the box in seconds... No long term ill effects.