How dark is Mellifera?

[B+.]

Nice thought B+. I heard this morning that the Irish AMM Club failed to attract anything like the number of attendees it had hoped for; to it's recent conference in Athlone. I had noticed that photos of the event were taken from a judicious angle.

I'm sure there are a few more we could draft in. Do you know a good pub?

 

[B+.]

I posted to point out the illustration was misleading.

In what way mbc? Do you think the image of the dark bee is too dark? Others have commented that the overhairs were more brown giving it a more ginger appearance. I'm no expert so I have no preconceived ideas. I'm just going from the information I have to hand.

 

[Teemore]

I heard this morning that the Irish AMM Club failed to attract anything like the number of attendees it had hoped for; to it's recent conference in Athlone.

Clearly you heard from a fantasist.....

I take it from your comments that you didn't actually attend the event despite being uncommonly preoccupied with the Native Irish Honey Bee Society?

Rather than have you rely upon more hearsay, I can appraise you that they had to put out extra chairs on both the Friday night and on the Saturday. The conference attracted more delegates than had been anticipated. A few pictures taken from the front of the conference room would have shown the numbers better but those taking the pictures were courteous enough not to disturb the speakers excessively.

 

[Quis Custodiet]

I'm sure there are a few more we could draft in. Do you know a good pub?

There would be quite a few experienced amcX breeders as members in the above AMM Club.
In my innocence, it was once my belief that there was one or at at most a small minority of Native Bee breeders here using/selling stock crossed with Carnica or Buckfast. This achieves the vigour for rapid increase to have nucs for sale.

 

[B+.]

There would be quite a few experienced amcX breeders as members in the above AMM Club.
In my innocence, it was once my belief that there was one or at at most a small minority of Native Bee breeders here using/selling stock crossed with Carnica or Buckfast. This achieves the vigour for rapid increase to have nucs for sale.

Perhaps so. If more people tested their bees then perhaps we'd know more than we do now.

 

[Quis Custodiet]

Much publicised DNA testing has been done on stocks, the results were not quite what was hoped for and so they were quietly forgotten. morphometry is now in vogue...much less precise. I feel for the newcomers to beekeeping, bombarded with propaganda and sold overpriced rubbish. There has been a three fold increase in the no. of beekeepers here...rich pickings for the unscrupulous. The very fundamentals of bee breeding are alien to most organisations and groups here.

 

[mbc]

In what way mbc? Do you think the image of the dark bee is too dark? Others have commented that the overhairs were more brown giving it a more ginger appearance. I'm no expert so I have no preconceived ideas. I'm just going from the information I have to hand.

" I thought it might illustrate just how dark A.m.m. really is."
Then perhaps a less assertive comment would have been more appropriate considering your lack of expertise.
As with most things biological Amm appearance has a range, and pretty much all genuine natives have more than a hint of ginger in my limited experience,(I've only seen examples from my own stamping ground in the flesh, though pictures from elsewhere suggest the ginger tinge holds true).

 

[mbc]

I can appraise you that they had to put out extra chairs on both the Friday night and on the Saturday. The conference attracted more delegates than had been anticipated. A few pictures taken from the front of the conference room would have shown the numbers better but those taking the pictures were courteous enough not to disturb the speakers excessively.

Glad to hear it Teemore, with any joy developments both sides of the irish sea can help improve the lot of our native bees.

 

[B+.]

" I thought it might illustrate just how dark A.m.m. really is."
Then perhaps a less assertive comment would have been more appropriate considering your lack of expertise.
As with most things biological Amm appearance has a range, and pretty much all genuine natives have more than a hint of ginger in my limited experience,(I've only seen examples from my own stamping ground in the flesh, though pictures from elsewhere suggest the ginger tinge holds true).

I am only going from the information I have to hand. I apologise if I came across too "assertive". The tests are the same for all races but the values will be different. After all, this is how entomologists worked before DNA came along.
At least it got the conversation going!

 

[Fusion_power]

in some parts of their range they are also known as dark bees or brown bees. They do vary a little.

They vary enough that at one time Bees in the UK were more likely to be described as brown than black. I've had bees that were dark leather brown and were near pure A.M.m. They have some exceptional traits sadly missing in the Ligustica and Carnica I've kept. I concur that pure A.M.m. are not suited for commercial beekeeping with a caveat that they are total gluttons for pollen and may have some use in pollination.

 

[Quis Custodiet]

Clearly you heard from a fantasist.....

I take it from your comments that you didn't actually attend the event despite being uncommonly preoccupied with the Native Irish Honey Bee Society?

Rather than have you rely upon more hearsay, I can appraise you that they had to put out extra chairs on both the Friday night and on the Saturday. The conference attracted more delegates than had been anticipated. A few pictures taken from the front of the conference room would have shown the numbers better but those taking the pictures were courteous enough not to disturb the speakers excessively.

Thank you for responding, my informant is satisfied that the number attending was less than hoped for, but perhaps it was more than anticipated and thus the need for more chairs. In any event good luck to them, organising a conference is both labour intensive and expensive.
I don't accept that the native honey bee society were concerned about disturbing the speakers or indeed anyone else. Did they condemn the violence in southern Ireland i.e the hive burning, the use of firearms and the assaults against those who do not endorse their views? (There is no suggestion by me that those engaging in such criminal activity were members of the native honey bee society or similar society.) What a marvellous opportunity they had to do so.
I have been shown screen shots of abuse on social media to which an unfortunate was subjected a few years ago. Not alone was the abuser not condemned, but he is now a prominent member of the society. To be absolutely fair, to her credit one lady member did condemn that behaviour, she was speaking in a personal and not an official capacity.
Were the DNA results of the bee sampling announced at the conference?
Was there any evidence produced to show that NATIVE AMM still exists? Doing so would have answered a key question and at a stroke silenced the critics. I rest my case.

 

[Poly Hive]

I am not getting involved in who said what re numbers... good grief people...

B+ and all.

Some of you will have heard of the "Maud" strain of AMM which was found by B. Mobus and propagated by him at Craibstone.

I inherited those bees and went on to buy in some very dark bees which eventually crossed with the Maud line and became in a lot of cases but not all very quiet and also please note productive bees. From between 50 to 70+ colonies I was producing pretty much every season for 8 years I think it was some 2 to 3 tonnes. Which ok is not massive but believe me it paid the bills and made a bit too.

Sadly my personal life got a bit complex and the final straw was a sod of a person who decided it would be fun to burn my hives. Sadly and i still feel guilty about it the Maud strain was lost to me. It may still be lurking around the NE of Scotland and with luck may surface again.

to answer the question B+ fully as dark if not slightly darker than your pic and not gingery at all. Just very dark. As I have said times the BIBBA people were very impressed, so much they came they measured they toddled back south never to be heard from again.

PH

 

[Quis Custodiet]

I am not getting involved in who said what re numbers... good grief people...

B+ and all.

Some of you will have heard of the "Maud" strain of AMM which was found by B. Mobus and propagated by him at Craibstone. ...................................

PH

Yes I have heard of the Maud strain and hope it does reappear again. The hive burning has an unfortunate resonance for many here, it cannot be justified.

 

[B+.]

to answer the question B+ fully as dark if not slightly darker than your pic and not gingery at all. Just very dark. As I have said times the BIBBA people were very impressed, so much they came they measured they toddled back south never to be heard from again.

PH

Thank you PH. I appreciate your candour.