Honey in BB not supers?

[cate]

Am in my second season of beeking - and things are different this year...

There is a lot of honey in the BB - I have put one super on but whilst there are a lot of bees in it, only two frames are full and only one is capped. Is this ok? I haven't seen the queen all season, although I did find eggs and brood earlier in the year. I suspect my marked queen was superceded late last year and i now have an unmarked queen - which I can't find.

How do I encourage the bees to move up to make honey in the supers?

They seem to be covering the holes in the QE too - although I cleaned it up yesterday so they could move across into the super- but should I take the QE off?

Lastly, in the super two of the frames have had brace comb built between them - pretty much stuck together now. I have 12 frames in the super - why are they building brace?

 

[oliver90owner]

although I did find eggs and brood earlier in the year.

This is one of the important observations at every inspection. How often have you been inspecting?

They seem to be covering the holes in the QE too

Is this a plastic device? I will suggest that it is severly impeding the bees' access to the super. Possibly one of the many faulty ones in circulation. Remove it and test the hypothesis. You could then bruise the honey cappings in the brood box which will persuade them to move it more quickly.

why are they building brace?

Possibly because of the limited amount of comb building going on.

RAB

Welcome to the forum, btw

 

[cate]

thanks for the information and your welcome to the forum.
I have been inspecting as regularly as the weather would allow - roughly every 7-9 days as the books advise - but very little brood now as there is mostly honey in the BB. I will take the QE off today before the weather turns and see if that helps

 

[aberreef]

You may need to add another super. You said in the first post that the super is full and they've capped the one frame so the bees are moving up these ok. They need space to evaporate the nectar so are filling the brood combs.

I'd add a super below the existing one with the QE in place then bruise the brood comb.

Keep a close eye on them in the meantime because the lack of brood area could lead to a swarm.

Hth


Huw

 

[oliver90owner]

Aha.

My first read seemed to indicate only two super frames drawn, filled and with one capped. Huw is right if the rest is almost filled and it may be entirely normal. The colony could have been contracting during a 'June gap' period and not particularly needed to draw more comb for their needs.

Tell us a little more about that super and how much brood in all stages there is - again standard sort of inspection details (which will tell you whether the colony is expanding/contracting, queen present and laying normally, etc), your type of hive, the weather and forage recently. It all helps to get the real picture.

RAB

 

[Baggyone]

Take the queen excluder off so that the bees can use all the space and get used to having the space.

Keep inspecting.

 

[Bees Plus]

Take the honey super away for a week, then replace it with a different QE.

Brace comb means the frames are too far apart maybe?

 

[drstitson]

"Brace comb means the frames are too far apart maybe?"

OP states 12 frames in super so opposite is likely problem.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

Take the queen excluder off so that the bees can use all the space and get used to having the space.

Keep inspecting.

No need, they're up there already.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

Income is very watery at the moment so needs to be evaporated off. For me it's also coming in thick and fast so it will be put where it can.

However ....

Eggs and brood seen earlier in the year? Not last week? I would expect that you should have 6+ frames of brood. If queenless and hence no brood then honey will be put anywhere - the brood pattern will go for a burton.

 

[cate]

Hi everyone, thanks for your comments. I have been offline for a while due to catastrophic meltdown of my computer.. back up and running now thank goodness and only 1200 emails to reply to..

To answer some of your questions and to give a better picture of the situation.

I DO have some brood (all stages seen) in the BB over 5 frames (as of last week).

The honey is being stuffed into any spare cell inside the BB but only some is being made in the super. I have added a second super and removed one of the frames in the top super and moved it to the lower super, to give a bit more room in the top super (to stop the buzzies making more brace comb between the frames - it can't be a case of too much room in the top super as the frames were packed pretty tightly - so I'm trying the other way 'round - per drstitson's suggestion)

I changed over the QE for a different one (albeit plastic) and I'm off today to get a metal one. I will post again when I have inspected next (first available dry day).

For extra info:
I am using a National and the weather here is highly changeable at the minute - my hive is in a field at the back of my garden - and there is a massive amount of forage around, but my buzzies do not seem interested in the lime tree flowers or my garden flowers (all selected for general bee delight) - they just fly off in one direction every day over a different part of the village - meanwhile my garden is absolutely choc a bloc with wild bumbles (I don't mind, but I would love MY buzzies to stay a bit closer to home.. I'm thinking of moving them into the garden itself over this winter )

 

[drstitson]

i know it is getting late in the season but try working the brood - you need to build up bees for winter so need nurse bees and brood space.

bruise stores on outer sides of the two frames at edge of brood zone and turn both round. likewise bruise the honey "arch" on the inner brood frames if it is impinging too much on laying area.

 

[Swarm]

Like oliver90owner, I read your original post as follows :

Only two frames full in the super, of which only one has been capped. Loads of honey stores in BB and brace comb between - guessing here - outer partly drawn/undrawn super frames. Is this correct?
You say brood of all stages as of last week, does that include eggs? I know the saying 'eggs is brood' but just want to be certain because it's beginning to sound like you've missed a swarm.
I hope this is not the case but it's one reason for all the stores in the BB.

I think some replies confused the super situation, thinking it was full but not capped but with just two frames full you do not need the second super.

I imagine you are using SN4 Hoffman super frames? Hoffmans were designed for self spacing at correct bee gap, twelve frames fit ideal for the BB.
When it comes to the super and frames for honey, you want to maximise your honey/frame ratio. You do this by spacing wider so comb can be drawn longer, there are limits but by having fewer frames it makes everything easier (same crop, less work)

I personally use 10 slot castellations and SN1 frames in my supers. The gap is not too large and the frames are held firmly in position which is ideal when it comes to moving/transporting the super.

Some plants for you to try next season :
Echium 'blue bedder'
Poached egg plant - limnanthes douglasii
Perennial corn flower
Crane's bill geranium
Various poppies, field, Welsh, Californian
Chinese wisteria.
For really early forage try planting carpets of crocus bulbs.
Most of your bees will be off to the major nectar sources but you will definitely see plenty enjoying the home selection.

 

[RogueDrone]

I was told that the bees wil not forage within 100yrds of hive. They save it for a rainy day .

Welcome, keep the questions comming that way we all learn.
Colin

 

[Swarm]

I was told that the bees wil not forage within 100yrds of hive. They save it for a rainy day .

Hi RogueDrone,

I was told they don't forage close to the hive as this area is usually the target for the old bee poo.
Mine are in the garden all season, rain or shine. As the crocuses, primroses and hellebores begin to come into bloom, you can watch the bees as they wind their way back to the hive (within 15 yards)

Sitting under a wisteria canopy I have growing over a pergola, is a bit of an experience Imagine the sound after you shake a frame of bees ... that is about 2ft overhead.

You will also find them taking water if you have some mossy areas.

As I said earlier, your main foraging squadrons will be shooting off to some main flow.