Home made Apiguard

[Gilberdyke John]

i went to the recent Saturday workshop on Oxalic sublimation and hygienic bees by Prof Ratnieks 0f LASI University of Sussex

He was most scathing of the Thymol paste products and Thymol based strips saying that in the UK the kill of mites is lower than the models predict due to our temeprate climate and late application by beekeepers

Are any study notes available from the workshop?

 

[Ruary]

i went to the recent Saturday workshop on Oxalic sublimation and hygienic bees by Prof Ratnieks 0f LASI University of Sussex

Well if the workshop was on oxalic sublimation he wasn't going talk up any other method was he?

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

i went to the recent Saturday workshop on Oxalic sublimation and hygienic bees by Prof Ratnieks 0f LASI University of Sussex



He was most scathing of the Thymol paste products and Thymol based strips saying that in the UK the kill of mites is lower than the models predict due to our temeprate climate and late application by beekeepers

Maybe, and I had little luck with Apiguard last year but this year they're pouring out so it's a matter of conditions and RTFM, not the product, in my view. This is the colony you kindly tested for nosema for me and although it might not help, it can't hurt there ( they'll get syrup later).

 

[peteinwilts]

i went to the recent Saturday workshop on Oxalic sublimation and hygienic bees by Prof Ratnieks 0f LASI University of Sussex

He was most scathing of the Thymol paste products and Thymol based strips saying that in the UK the kill of mites is lower than the models predict due to our temeprate climate and late application by beekeepers

isn't the success based on the results?

I use the Thymol recipe on the sticky, and Oxalic around New year and have done for about 4 years.
So far, I have no significant mite issues. Last year my Regional Inspector says I have the healthiest bees he has seen for a long time, including his own.

 

[alanf]

i went to the recent Saturday workshop on Oxalic sublimation and hygienic bees by Prof Ratnieks 0f LASI University of Sussex

He was most scathing of the Thymol paste products and Thymol based strips saying that in the UK the kill of mites is lower than the models predict due to our temeprate climate and late application by beekeepers

I suspect he's right. If you used apiguard (or similar) in the last month this year when the temperature was 20-25°C in the SE and 15-16°C overnight you might have got decent results. However, in previous years, I reckon my kill rates were probably nearer 50-60%. That's limited sampling based on drop counts and September into early October temperatures which were hitting 15-18°C daily maximum. The instructions say (on current Vita website)

Apiguard works best in temperatures above 15°C. But it is also effective at lower temperatures even though the gel takes longer to evaporate and the gel needs to be left I place for longer.

The gel was disappearing in the two week period, so "left in place" wasn't an option. Was it effective if the daily temperature maximum was 15°C? I'm even assuming 15°C is the temperature as in the weather reports, the instructions are not very explicit. If they were more precise, I think external temperatures above 15°C 24 hours a day could be what is being recommended yet lots of beekeepers are being encouraged to use it later in the year when it's less effective.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

I suspect he's right. If you used apiguard (or similar) in the last month this year when the temperature was 20-25°C in the SE and 15-16°C overnight you might have got decent results. However, in previous years, I reckon my kill rates were probably nearer 50-60%. That's limited sampling based on drop counts and September into early October temperatures which were hitting 15-18°C daily maximum. The instructions say (on current Vita website) The gel was disappearing in the two week period, so "left in place" wasn't an option. Was it effective if the daily temperature maximum was 15°C? I'm even assuming 15°C is the temperature as in the weather reports, the instructions are not very explicit. If they were more precise, I think external temperatures above 15°C 24 hours a day could be what is being recommended yet lots of beekeepers are being encouraged to use it later in the year when it's less effective.

Seems a little odd that the external temperature is so critical when the bees are keeping the internal temperature pretty closely controlled until winter cluster conditions take over?

 

[itma]

i went to the recent Saturday workshop on Oxalic sublimation and hygienic bees by Prof Ratnieks 0f LASI University of Sussex

He was most scathing of the Thymol paste products and Thymol based strips saying that in the UK the kill of mites is lower than the models predict due to our temeprate climate and late application by beekeepers

As I have commented before, Ratnieks is coming at it from a direction inappropriate to hobby beekeepers.

He was considering Apiguard/Thymol as an ALTERNATIVE to Oxalic, not as an ADDITIONAL treatment.
Which is pretty daft.

Oxalic is wholly inappropriate as an Autumn treatment.
But there is a rationale behind an Autumn varroa treatment - getting healthier "Winter bees". The Winter bees have to survive in good enough condition to be effective foragers for the Spring brood. The healthier the Winter bees, the stronger the Spring brood.
Producing Winter bees that have had minimal larval parasitisation from varroa is the reason for an Autumn treatment.
Midwinter Oxalic (sublimated or trickled) will not give healthier Winter bees.

Not for the first time, Ratnieks seems determined to answer the wrong question!



/// ADDED - Year-round IPM is what should be being preached, not a search for the best 'once-a-year' flush.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Seems a little odd that the external temperature is so critical when the bees are keeping the internal temperature pretty closely controlled until winter cluster conditions take over?

It's not constant throughout the hive, though. Except perhaps in Derek's "daleks".

 

[alanf]

Seems a little odd that the external temperature is so critical when the bees are keeping the internal temperature pretty closely controlled until winter cluster conditions take over?

It's covered in the FAQ: http://www.vita-europe.com/wp-content/uploads/VitaApiguardFAQ201208.pdf

The external temperature should be above 15°C (60°F), which means that the colony is active. Distribution of the Apiguard gel depends on the bees transporting it around the hive during the process of hive cleaning and this activity increases as the external temperature rises.

 

[Galaxy55]

Interesting to see all the replies, lots of points made I didn't consider. What I thought I would do is monitor closely the mite drop using the home made recipe and then use Apiguard for the second fortnight to see how effective the home made recipe was. As a beginner at this just trying things out and learning from my mistakes.

 

[Elaine]

Interesting to see all the replies, lots of points made I didn't consider. What I thought I would do is monitor closely the mite drop using the home made recipe and then use Apiguard for the second fortnight to see how effective the home made recipe was. As a beginner at this just trying things out and learning from my mistakes.

But don't forget, as mentioned in an earlier post - this will only be a single observation, in one set of conditions, so impossible to draw any real conclusions. You need many replications, in controled conditions to prove anything.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Seems a little odd that the external temperature is so critical when the bees are keeping the internal temperature pretty closely controlled until winter cluster conditions take over?

It's all to do with the movement of bees - a lot of the efficacy depends on the bees asttemting to get rid of the apiguard thus getting it all over the hive whilst carrying it outside to dump it.Colder outside temperatures would discourage this
So maybe someone should make a study of the efficacy of Apiguard at low temperatures on different strains of bee - my dark ones seem to be outside in all kinds of weather

What I thought I would do is monitor closely the mite drop using the home made recipe and then use Apiguard for the second fortnight to see how effective the home made recipe was. As a beginner at this just trying things out and learning from my mistakes.

Well, it doesn't work that way unfortunately as it works on phoretic mites. depending on the colony make-up at the time of application the mortality rate very much depends on the emergence rate of brood. If there's been a significant brood break you could have a very heavy drop at first with nothing much after or nothing much until the last few days

 

[Galaxy55]

I understand from the comments already made that there are lots of variables to consider. Checked hive for the first time yesterday and only a drop of 2 but from the evidence on the varroa board the bees seem to be very active at moving the home made apiguard around. Lots to learn and small steps thought it would be an interesting experiment but also learnt a lot from the comments made.