Hoffman frames

[Sadders]

I keep on 14x12 Hoffmans.

In my 5 years of so keeping bees I have not found an effective method to stop bees getting crushed by the Hoffmans when pulling back together. I usually use a bit of smoke and a bit of luck but don't want to over smoke them.

What do you do?

 

[Finman]

.
You should sometimes cut off propolis from choulders. Frames become too tight. Frames should be in same order as they have been, because their thicknes is not even.

 

[jonnybeegood]

I use these, when you lower each frame down do it gently & slowly to give them chance to move,hsving runners helps too, when you slide one up to the next i waggle it ever so slightly to give the bees time to move from where the frames butt up to each other. I see some Beeks just rush to put frames back in, banging & crushing bees, be gentle & they will be gentle with you, ive yet to be stung doing inspections because i try not to crush bees. Maybe not so easy when its a business & you have lots to do, but with just a few, the gentler you are the better.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Just go slowly and gently. If you are in a hurry, you will crush bees.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

I keep on 14x12 Hoffmans.

In my 5 years of so keeping bees I have not found an effective method to stop bees getting crushed by the Hoffmans when pulling back together. I usually use a bit of smoke and a bit of luck but don't want to over smoke them.

What do you do?

Try offering the shoulders of the frame you are lowering into contact with its neighbour and sliding down while keeping contact. Don't rush. This way there shouldn't be any bees trapped because there wasn't a gap for them to get trapped in.
Takes but a fraction of a second longer than just plonking the frame back and closing the gap when it's in.

 

[jonnybeegood]

Try offering the shoulders of the frame you are lowering into contact with its neighbour and sliding down while keeping contact. Don't rush. This way there shouldn't be any bees trapped because there wasn't a gap for them to get trapped in.
Takes but a fraction of a second longer than just plonking the frame back and closing the gap when it's in.

Wont that roll bees though? I thought that was why frames are pushed up to each other so as not to roll bees?

 

[Tremyfro]

With all my new frames this year....my OH trimmed them a bit with a file. They are not such a close fit so are easier to move along the edges. Also scraping off the propolis and wax of any difficult frames helps. I have quite a few plastic Beebits frames...and they are fab...always slide easily along the rails. Sadly, they don't make 14x12 ... Only national brood and super.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Wont that roll bees though? I thought that was why frames are pushed up to each other so as not to roll bees?

Shoulders touching keeps the frames and combs apart by the appropriate distance. That's why the shoulders are there.

 

[jonnybeegood]

Shoulders touching keeps the frames and combs apart by the appropriate distance. That's why the shoulders are there.

Yes but arent the op's bees being crushed against the shoulders? My bees are always all over the frame & shoulders of it, when i slide the frame up to the next one i have to wait for them to move, if i slid them down from above it would either roll bees or if done slowly take longer for them to move than pushing them up together. Each to their own i guess.

 

[itma]

If I spot the odd bee that won't 'mind the gap' when given a small puff of smoke, I lower the hive tool into the gap (pushing bee/s out ot the way), snug the frame against the hive tool, then withdraw and immediately close the frames together. Minor variation of a technique a TBH keeper showed me (TBH, no gaps between topbars - he used a 2mm wood shim before snugging them together).

/// Should also have said that I'm an adherent of the technique of shifting the dummy board to the opposite end during each inspection. So inspected frames are replaced into essentially their final position - there is no closing up of lots of gaps at the end of inspection - each gap is dealt with as the frame is replaced.

 

[snelgrove]

I don't find hoffman a problem, as long as you are reasonably careful, manleys are a nightmare . but saying that they weren't designed to be moved

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Yes but arent the op's bees being crushed against the shoulders? My bees are always all over the frame & shoulders of it, when i slide the frame up to the next one i have to wait for them to move, if i slid them down from above it would either roll bees or if done slowly take longer for them to move than pushing them up together. Each to their own i guess.

I've tried to attach a couple of photos to expand on what I'm trying to get across to you.

 

[jonnybeegood]

I've tried to attach a couple of photos to expand on what I'm trying to get across to you.

Yes i do understand what you mean but by sliding the frames down each other, unless the comb is perfectly parallel you would roll bees on the comb, thats why we take a dummy board out or the first couple of frames out on inspection, if you slide them down each other as in your photos the combs wont have a gap between them in places so will push bees. That goes for any type of frame surely?

 

[Dishmop]

That goes for any type of frame surely?

No.

 

[jonnybeegood]

No.

Would you like to elaborate?

 

[itma]

.. but by sliding the frames down each other, unless the comb is perfectly parallel you would roll bees on the comb... That goes for any type of frame surely?

Not really. The idea is that you 'kiss' the hoffmans together (ensuring beespace), and then letting gravity keep the frames parallel.

However the theory is immediately undone if there is any imperfection in the comb-drawing or any of the bees getting out of line, and once they start rolling, the snowball grows. So I don't rely on this.

 

[jonnybeegood]

Not really. The idea is that you 'kiss' the hoffmans together (ensuring beespace), and then letting gravity keep the frames parallel.

However the theory is immediately undone if there is any imperfection in the comb-drawing or any of the bees getting out of line, and once they start rolling, the snowball grows. So I don't rely on this.

Thats exactly what i mean , comb is never the same on two frames, any raised bits or bits of brace comb will line up when frames are butted up together, but not when slid down each other.

 

[Dishmop]

Thats exactly what i mean , comb is never the same on two frames, any raised bits or bits of brace comb will line up when frames are butted up together, but not when slid down each other.

If it came out it should go back in...

Think about the description.."Self Spacing Frame"
You cant "slide" a frame in a box that has castellations?

 

[Hivemaker.]

Thats exactly what i mean , comb is never the same on two frames, any raised bits or bits of brace comb will line up when frames are butted up together, but not when slid down each other.

Or patches of drone brood or drone brood built along the bottoms of the frames as there often is.

 

[MuswellMetro]

If I spot the odd bee that won't 'mind the gap' when given a small puff of smoke, I lower the hive tool into the gap (pushing bee/s out ot the way), snug the frame against the hive tool, then withdraw and immediately close the frames together. Minor variation of a technique a TBH keeper showed me (TBH, no gaps between topbars - he used a 2mm wood shim before snugging them together).

/// Should also have said that I'm an adherent of the technique of shifting the dummy board to the opposite end during each inspection. So inspected frames are replaced into essentially their final position - there is no closing up of lots of gaps at the end of inspection - each gap is dealt with as the frame is replaced.

agrree to both techniques however i have few on warm way and they i have to work from behind so i use the hive tool to lever all the frames to the front with dummy then behind them