Hive type

[mikebucks]

Hi, being relativeley new to beekeeping I followed advise and started with national hives. I now notice that many others move away from these because of the size issue. What is opinion as to the best alternative between 14x12 and hamilton adapters to create 10 frame commercials, does anyone think one works better than the other? I could make my national adapters myself.

Mike Bucks

 

[jimbeekeeper]

I now notice that many others move away from these because of the size issue.

But many still use nationals with no issues.

What is issues are you having that is making you think you need to go bigger?

 

[mikebucks]

I Think it is the idea that with a larger brood box there will be less risk of swarming alongside the increased colony size to produce honey. Part of it is that if so many change from nationals to other systems then maybe I should also but having only two seasons under my belt and wanting to expand from four hives to ten then perhaps I should think about what kit would be best.

 

[hedgerow pete]

the general point with brood bowes are these , a standard bee hive needs 72,000 cells in the brood bo to function correctly, a standard nation holds 57,100 cellsa WBC has 52,000 a modified commercial will have 74,250 a langstrothwill have 72,250 and a modified dadant will contain 93,70, all figure from CLIVE DE BRUYN'S PRACTICAL BEEKEEPING,( which by the way is the greatest book ever in the whole of the beekeeping world for starters to get hold of) so what do we use I personaly have allways used either wbc's because the look beatuifull and who wants to look at some thing ugly and the national, both of which are a bit tight for the girls to play in so i use a 12 x 14 brood box which gives me a nice round 78,500. dont bother with and elk just get the brood box built to the right size first time it will allways bee right ! from then on. also from someone who has had to use them please please please dont have a double brood box as a beginer they will put you off and they are very hard to inspect properly

 

[hedgerow pete]

by the way bee's will swarm no matter how empty the brood box is, they dont fill it up then think about going other wise we would allways be removing the odd frame to stop them

 

[Hivemaker.]

Tried commercials,did not get on at all well with these. I like nationals.WBC look pretty but just not practical for me.nice garden ornaments.Strain of bee's you use also makes a difference.

 

[hedgerow pete]

the national hive is great to start with. many plans to biuld them , many parts to buy for them, good resale value and people know what they are, i have always used them, but i have also used them with 12 x 14 boxes, i know many people who have used all the other types and if i were to change i would either go langstroth or dartington long hive. i chose to use nationals because i wanted to have several wbc's hives painted white and looking beautifull in the garden, yes there is more parts but who cares i only had two and i enjoyed the whole process. also i could make the national/wbc hive from a set of plans brought at the spring convention, so i collected the pieces one at a time till i was ready to make the lot up at once, great fun for a weekends work, ended up there was four of us all haveing our own timber but a combined set of tools to use, if i remember we made 5 wbc and 6 nationals with one dartington for good measure. the poly hives are great but i am to heavy handed and would be worried that i may break them, with mt ply wood ones i know i can mend them if i need to

 

[tony350i]

ive got to agree with hivemaker, i find BN idea for me coz i do move some hives around abit,

Hivemaker, are you using a particular stain of honey bee and if so where do you get your queens from.


Regards TC

 

[mikebucks]

Thanks for all of your viewpoints. It looks like it may be 14 x12's for me then, I suppose an eke can be permanently fixed?

 

[Hivemaker.]

Hi Tony, the best description i can use is local bee's, I have allways reared my own queens. But for the first time ever,i bought 10 carniolans from slovenia at the start of last august,time will tell about these,but i have bought them as part of my instrumental insemination project.Did once try NZ, not bought,for me they were rubbish.

Regarding nationals,well i started with a lot of commercials,but the bee's in the nationals did better for me personally in every way. I have made most types of hive over the years,in fact had a phone call just before xmas from someone wanting 100 langstroth box's. But generally i find the nationals are much more in demand,and make over 400 of these complete each year. Never tried the poly hives,but from what i hear from (Poly Hive),they are good,and have heard they are strong,so don't think i would worry too much about being heavy handed (Hedgrow Pete.)

 

[tony350i]

Ok Thanks Hivemaker,
i have mostly mongs with a little Buckfast Cecropia running through them and a couple or so hives with Norton's queen.

i have pencilled in 10 Cecropia queens for this year but haven't parted with the readies yet, i am still a little undecided and i got a feeling that they may be a little swarmy for the apiary site i had planned for them, i suppose i am a little undecided as to want stain to go for.

have you got the contact details of the carniolans from slovenia

TC

 

[tony350i]

great thanks,

TC

 

[jimbeekeeper]

the general point with brood bowes are these , a standard bee hive needs 72,000 cells in the brood bo to function correctly, a standard nation holds 57,100 cellsa WBC has 52,000 a modified commercial will have 74,250 a langstrothwill have 72,250 and a modified dadant will contain 93,70,

This is good data Pete.

A single brood box can easly be managed, but why not just do double brood box in nationals?

 

[tony350i]

yes Hivemaker he seem a very nice man and i hope to pick some queens up in may.

Thanks Tony

 

[Poly Hive]

More comments tomorrow on this.

"Heavy handed" Poly might break? LOL

Kidding aye? Never worked one? Def.

Heads up here. In the nicest way poss.

I had one drop of my trailer at 40 mph. Champhered the roof slightly. Colony survived fine.

When I lectured I stood on the roof and jumped up and down on it.

We are talking injection molded poly here not packaging material.

The only weak poly I have seen was a Langstroth box modified to a Nat dimension leaving a 3/8" lip to support the sups. That was I have to say a bit fragile but the same box machined to Smith dimensions was fine.

PH

 

[BKF Admin]

Thanks for all of your viewpoints. It looks like it may be 14 x12's for me then, I suppose an eke can be permanently fixed?

I am not to keen on eke's,reason is last year I was looking after a few hives for a friend,in a hurry I was removing supers to inspect the brood boxes on National hives checking for QC'S,halfway along the line I could not get a super to part from its brood box for love nor money,after stepping back and inspecting I noticed that it was an eke for 14x12 frames that had been screwed to a national brood box.

 

[BKF Admin]

but the same box machined to Smith dimensions was fine.

PH

I would of thought that poly is great for a Smith hive due to the equal strength on all sides.

Anyone got a link for poly nationals please?

 

[Hivemaker.]

HAHAHA, Extra thick glasses for you me lad. Bet you thought you were on (you been framed), Admin.

 

[ian]

Hi Admin

http://www.swienty.com/?pid=5&ref=1007&root=1001

I did have a U.K price list, if I can't find it I am sure Pete will have one.

Poly Nat broods were a couple of £'s more than Thornes wooden seconds, so very good value, what they are at the moment with oil prices having been so high now low + the Euro? Delivery from Murray in Scotland very cheap or can view and collect at Stoneliegh.


Regards Ian

 

[Poly Hive]

I don't have one myself at the moment due to the oil price taking off and then slumping. (thank goodness I am out of that game)

all I can say is this re poly. There are two vendors around in the UK both in Scotland. One: Murray at Denrosa supplies Nationals as we know them, and the other Hamish at Struan apiaries supplies Langstroth and Smith. Thesmith takes either 12 or thirteen frames depending on the frame, and the Langstroth takes 10.

Note that Hamish does not supply supers while Murray does but that supers are easy enough to make from broods and the offcuts resulting from this can be successfully glued up to make another super.

Further if both vendors are pressed, they will tell you as they have told me that given the choice they would if they could afford it put all their colonies into poly. But as between them they own thousands of wooden hives that is not affordable.

Given that they are the most successful bee farmers in the UK their words for me carry some considerable weight.

PH