Help... How do I stop robbing?

[tonybloke]

We have been told a piece of cloche glass against the entrance stops the robbers who fly straight to the entrance and hit the glass and confuse themselves.

The residents, work out how to get home in time.

Not used it but told it works??

have used it, and it works!

 

[Nightynight]

in an emergency.. for a weak nuc. Give the robbers something else to rob, I have in the past stuck a blob fondant nearby seem to distract the buggers, then moved the hive a foot sideways and shut the entrance down to one bee only. Worked well as it gave the bees inside time to orginise themselves.

 

[Nose Ma]

Having checked around, I have reduced the entrance with grass to about 2 bee widths. There was an entrance block in anyway, so wasn't big in the first place. Not sure what else I could block entrance up with other than grass (suggestions?). Since they removed the grass yesterday evening, I have replaced it and now have draped a wet sheet over both hives int he hope that does the trick.

I am mostly convinced that Robbing is going on, bees all over the front of the hive rather than just on the landing board area, some tussling going on etc, but my only worry is that I've also seen normal traffic of bees returning with pollen etc. I'm not going to cause them trouble am I?

And, should I continue to feed in the evenings?

Keith (see piccy) seems to have used some foam to reduce the entrance - but be careful it does not get all wet and mouldy.

Are you treating with Thymol at the moment? It seems the bees don't like it, and tend to hang out the entrance like moody teenagers when the treatment is in. Mine are doing this at the moment, which in a way helps as they take out wasps who even fly near to the entrance. They also seem to be tussling a bit on the alighting board, both with each other and returning foragers. Watching for some time I was unsure if it was play fighting or grooming. Either way they look like they are scrapping. It's far more aggressive with wasps, the bee seems to jump at the wasp, and in a death embrace the two fall to the ground. About eight times out of ten both fly off, the other two one or the other makes the kill. Off topic, but I saw a wasp with an unusual tactic during a fight. She was struggling with a bee, but neither could bend their abdomen around to sting. The wasp then bit through the bee's waist, separating her thorax from her abdomen, and flew off with the abdomen. The bee tried to fly and crawled around with just a head and thorax for a while, until I decided to euthanase her.

Careful you don't chill the hive with the wet blanket, or make it too moist in there.

I am sure more experienced beeks will contribute too.

 

[Sabrina]

Nose Ma, so do you think perhaps this is what they are doing rather than being robbed? What made me think it was robbing was the fact that it was just after I'd fed them yesterday morning and there were so many bees spread all over the fronts of both hives. Also lots in the air and some tussling.

It WAS a sunny day though, so maybe there were just more bees about again. They are on their last round of ApiLife Var too, so maybe a combo of the warmth of the day and that might have set them off? No problems with robbing last year and I made ALL sorts of cock-ups with syrup all over the apiary then

Wasps seem to be being dealt with just fine. Not many anyway.

Sheets only damp and it's a warm day today. I'm off to check on them again later on.

Might take some bits of foam rubber insoles with me to block entrances temporarily.

Thanks for info.

Nightynight, no room for moving the hives (small apiary) and I don't have any fondant at the moment so there would be a delay anyway. They are also both pretty strong hives.

Thanks though.

 

[Sabrina]

Would clear perspex work instead of glass? I have a spare shed window (don't ask)

 

[Nose Ma]

Nose Ma, so do you think perhaps this is what they are doing rather than being robbed? What made me think it was robbing was the fact that it was just after I'd fed them yesterday morning and there were so many bees spread all over the fronts of both hives. Also lots in the air and some tussling.

Quite possibly - but I am only in my second season. As I recall the bees have no "precision" dance for food in the hive, they have to use the circular "WOW, FOOD, NEAR, PANIC!" dance. This may confuse a few into leaving and searching around the hive. That's a guess, not based on any actual research. If it's right, you'd see a lot outside the hive flying.

Have a look at BBG's rather excellent pictures and description on this thread - http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=13764

I don't know how you'd tell a robber from a forager.

 

[Sabrina]

But the tussling is a concern too. Oh now I'm even more confused! Will check on them in a bit and see what's happening.

How on earth are you supposed to observe which way their little legs are hanging when they're flying to show if they're empty or full of syrup??????

Thanks

 

[Nose Ma]

It would arguably be easier to stop and ask them.

 

[Sabrina]

I tried that but they weren't very conversational. A bit busy I think.

 

[ksjs]

Low is good, but low, narrow like 2 bees rather than 2 inches (and central) is ideal.
Use foam or whatever temporarily ...

Bit of a thread hijack - sorry. I've recently reduced to literally one beespace but they seem to hate it and are intent on removing the offending material (I've cut down a foam camping mat to block the entrance). They are literally sat on the foam chomping away at it regardless of how many bees are trying to get in / go out.

Should I:

- increase space slightly?
- change material and keep space same size (use wood instead)?
- leave alone, let them live with it safe in the knowledge that whilst they might be annoyed they do at least stand a better chance of defending themselves?

Thanks.

 

[itma]

... I've recently reduced to literally one beespace but they seem to hate it and are intent on removing the offending material (I've cut down a foam camping mat to block the entrance). They are literally sat on the foam chomping away at it regardless of how many bees are trying to get in / go out.

Should I:

- increase space slightly?
- change material and keep space same size (use wood instead)?
- leave alone, let them live with it safe in the knowledge that whilst they might be annoyed they do at least stand a better chance of defending themselves?

I think - and I'm only learning - that foam/mud/grass is mainly useful as a temporary and immediate fix to a current problem.
You need to close the space down (but let flying bees return to their own hive) so you bung it up almost closed with whatever is quickest and easiest.

If the crisis continues into the next day (or you think it might), the advice has been given to put them on lockdown or get them away to somewhere safer.
But once the crisis is past, or the attack has dropped to a manageable level, you could open it up a bit but leave a somewhat reduced (more easily defended than normal) entrance - for which you want something more permanent than foam.
Its your call as to how big an entrance your troops can defend. Bees seem quite patient about a little queue to get in and out, and unless you are worried about the state of stores in the hive, the productivity shortfall from a greatly reduced entrance doesn't seem to be enough to be concerned about.

As always, I'd love to be told if I've got any of this wrong!

 

[New Bee 2]

I had a problem with robbing last year and reduced the hive entrance to 1 bee space and propped a piece of glass over the entrance with a gap at the sides. Can't remember where I read to do this - Cushman maybe?? Anyway, solved the problem in a matter of hours

 

[Sabrina]

Wet sheet did nothing other than trap a LOAD of bees under the sheet all over the hive. And it dried out too quickly given that my apiary isn't at the bottom of my garden.

So, I've now put feed and water (soaked cotton wool pads in a tin lid) in the top of each and locked them down. Have removed varroa floors too for ventilation. The final ApiLife Var treatment is half way through anyway, so I figure better to ventilate than overheat the bees. I'll pop and see them tomorrow and see how it's going. Nasty suspicion that they'll somehow have removed the entrance blocks, but we shall see.

If that doesn't work, I'll try the glass!

Thanks

 

[ksjs]

I think - and I'm only learning - that foam/mud/grass is mainly useful as a temporary and immediate fix to a current problem.
You need to close the space down (but let flying bees return to their own hive) so you bung it up almost closed with whatever is quickest and easiest.

If the crisis continues into the next day (or you think it might), the advice has been given to put them on lockdown or get them away to somewhere safer.
But once the crisis is past, or the attack has dropped to a manageable level, you could open it up a bit but leave a somewhat reduced (more easily defended than normal) entrance - for which you want something more permanent than foam.
Its your call as to how big an entrance your troops can defend. Bees seem quite patient about a little queue to get in and out, and unless you are worried about the state of stores in the hive, the productivity shortfall from a greatly reduced entrance doesn't seem to be enough to be concerned about.

As always, I'd love to be told if I've got any of this wrong!

There's no crisis, just wasps regularly trying to gain access.

For good reasons I have no super on, one very damaged (robbed I think) brood box stores frame hence they're on the cusp of having / not having enough stores to get through the winter so I don't want to give wasps a chance.

I plan to maintain, unless advised that this isn't a good plan, a significantly reduced entrance until into November when wasps are finally out of the way.

 

[Nose Ma]

Wet sheet did nothing other than trap a LOAD of bees under the sheet all over the hive. And it dried out too quickly given that my apiary isn't at the bottom of my garden.

So, I've now put feed and water (soaked cotton wool pads in a tin lid) in the top of each and locked them down. Have removed varroa floors too for ventilation. The final ApiLife Var treatment is half way through anyway, so I figure better to ventilate than overheat the bees. I'll pop and see them tomorrow and see how it's going. Nasty suspicion that they'll somehow have removed the entrance blocks, but we shall see.

If that doesn't work, I'll try the glass!

Thanks

What are you feeding them? Is the water in the hive necessary? I've never given mine water in the hive, and they seem to studiously ignore all my attempts to train them to a water source, preferring horse manure, the overgrown and stinking pond in the abandoned house next door etc.

 

[Sabrina]

Failed on hive shutdown as forgot about ventilation rose in roof!!!! Thankfully I remembered before they all got stuck outside for the day.

Now got sheet of clear perspex in front of each hive which does seem to be cutting down the number of bees gathering on the front of the hive. However, there are still a fair few fatalities outside front of one of the hives (about 20 or so bees in last 24 hours). I've reduced each hive entrance to about one bee size which presumably is helping them defend the hives, but annoyed at senseless waste of bees at this time of year. Don't know what else to do though. Should I still try shutting them up completely?

I'm hoping to get in a last inspection before winter shutdown, but I'm a little nervous about exposing the open hive when it's being attacked already.

Also, there seem to be LOADS of bees gathered under each varroa floor. I have finished thymol treatments and removed the drawers to help with ventilation when I THOUGHT I was sealing up the hive the other day, and now there are bees clustered under mesh floor of each hive.

Any advice gratefully received!!

 

[drstitson]

re robbing - this is the italian advice:

"Go to the pharmacy and pick up a bottle of camphor.
It's cheap.
At the entrance, which of course you have to restrict the passage of 2 to 3 bees do it so that there is a landing shelf about ten cm deep.
At a distance of about 5-7 cm from the entrance you put a piece of camphor.
This product has a smell that bees do not like.
You'll see that the looting ends quickly."

an apparent alternative is a container of Naphtha (eg camping stove oil) placed near the entrance for an hour or so, taking car not to spill any onto the woodwork.