Help for what comes next

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Again I learnt the hard way re heather & dysentery in my first season which coincided with a long cold winter. Since then I remove the heather crop feed back blossom stores pre heather and top up with invert.

Strange, my grandfather used to overwinter solely on heather stores (never fed, never bothered taking any heather honey off) and he never mentioned problems with overwintering on it.
I don't think you can pin it all on that reason after only one incident.

 

[Anduril]

Assuming there is appropriate space to expand into it's the spring expansion of the colony that really uses up the stores which can lead to starvation. I suppose the key things to know are when your hive is expanding, the state of their stores and knowledge of the available forage in your locale coupled with the prevailing weather conditions; not to mention exactly when "spring" occurs for you.

When you have minimal stores in your hive in spring, some beekeepers may overfeed with sugar syrup, this cand lead to early swarming.

 

[Murox]

When you have minimal stores in your hive in spring, some beekeepers may overfeed with sugar syrup, this cand lead to early swarming.

Yes its always a 'judgement call', syrup feeding does stimulate. Perhaps its preferable to slap on some fondant or an ultra bee patty if needed - doesn't excite them in the same way.

 

[gmonag]

Extraction in the spring is not a good practice, this can be a time of year when starvation happens.

You need to give me some credit here.

Invariably, much of the honey is not consumed so can be extracted in the spring.

... can be extracted in spring, along with all the other spring honey, because it is not sugar syrup "honey".

 

[Moobee]

Mine overwinter mostly on honey .. they are 14 x 12 hives and they will flll the brood box with ivy honey and the remains of the season. If they need a top up to fill the brood box they get feeders on with Invertbee ... With poly hives they inevitably have frames of stores left in spring.

Ditto, I ran brood and a half last year and by late autumn, they had filled the half with honey so left it with them for winter and they came out the other side a good strong colony.
I’m not a fan of removing all the honey and feeding just syrup. To me that’s like taking away the steak and vegetables and leaving a McDonald’s behind.

 

[Anduril]

You need to give me some credit here.



... can be extracted in spring, along with all the other spring honey, because it is not sugar syrup "honey".

Now you are moving the goalposts!

 

[Moobee]

Of those who DO GIVE honey as Winter food -

A) Who leaves a super on top and thus start the new year on brood and a half?
B) Who spins out the honey and feeds back so it’s in the brood box for the Winter?
C) Who nadirs a full super?
D) Who nadirs partly filled or unsealed super and feeds to achieve full weight of stores?

I expect most do variations of the above according to colony and need, but it would be interesting to know what people’s “base line” or “norm” is.

I’m asking as I’m going to have a few unsealed and part sealed supers to deal with and am inclined to spin out and feed back in order NOT to start the new year on brood and a half and all this season, my bees have stored absolutely minimal honey in the brood boxes.

C last year but think I left it a little too late as they didn’t move it all up into the brood box as expected and I froze the rest in spring to give back to them this year.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I’m not a fan of removing all the honey and feeding just syrup. To me that’s like taking away the steak and vegetables and leaving a McDonald’s behind.

But to achieve that you would have to raid the brood box stores. How many people do that?

 

[Anduril]

I've just watched Bob Binnie on YouTube, he was briefly talking about Lewis Bartlett, who can be seen on the 'aficionados of oxalic sublimation' thread. He has done research into what happens to sugar syrup when it's fed to the bees. When sugar syrup is fed to the bees, some of the enzymes in honey is also in sugar syrup and it is the bees who put it there which are:-
Invertase - which converts sucrose to fructose and glucose, it also helps to stop fermentation, once the water percentage gets to 18.5%.
Glucose Oxidase - which gives the honey and syrup it's PH value
Hydrogen Peroxide - which gives it the antiseptic quality.
It looks like Bob will be doing a video on this research for those who are interested.

 

[Boston Bees]

I've just watched Bob Binnie on YouTube, he was briefly talking about Lewis Bartlett, who can be seen on the 'aficionados of oxalic sublimation' thread. He has done research into what happens to sugar syrup when it's fed to the bees. When sugar syrup is fed to the bees, some of the enzymes in honey is also in sugar syrup and it is the bees who put it there which are:-
Invertase - which converts sucrose to fructose and glucose, it also helps to stop fermentation, once the water percentage gets to 18.5%.
Glucose Oxidase - which gives the honey and syrup it's PH value
Hydrogen Peroxide - which gives it the antiseptic quality.
It looks like Bob will be doing a video on this research for those who are interested.

I think he already has

 

[Anduril]

I think he already has

That is the one I'm quoting, Lewis has already done the research and Bob would like to do a video in the future.

 

[Anduril]

I think he already has

I responded to quickly that was a year ago, this is his latest.

 

[elainemary]

Do ling and bell differ in outcome?

Don’t know Eric as I’ve only ever collected 2 frames of bell heather. Usually Ling is the one that’s referred to & my own experience

 

[elainemary]

Strange, my grandfather used to overwinter solely on heather stores (never fed, never bothered taking any heather honey off) and he never mentioned problems with overwintering on it.
I don't think you can pin it all on that reason after only one incident.

Has only happened once. Not in the last 4 seasons, assumed it was because I left all the heather on. Plus I’m at altitude so harder for the bees to get out on cleansing flights and it coincided with the winter we had multiple beasts from the Easts. Maybe it’s linked to strength of colonies too.

 

[Moobee]

But to achieve that you would have to raid the brood box stores. How many people do that?

Why would I need to raid the brood box? Sorry, not sure I understand…..

 

[Erichalfbee]

Why would I need to raid the brood box? Sorry, not sure I understand…..

This is what you said

Ditto, I ran brood and a half last year and by late autumn, they had filled the half with honey so left it with them for winter and they came out the other side a good strong colony.
I’m not a fan of removing all the honey and feeding just syrup. To me that’s like taking away the steak and vegetables and leaving a McDonald’s behind.

The bees store honey in the brood box

 

[Moobee]

Got it, thanks!

This is what you said

The bees store honey in the brood box