Help for what comes next

[Ian123]

I

Can I ask what is the rose hive method?

It involves keeping bees in a box but because the box has a subtle name and you have a METHOD it gives the beek a warm fuzzy feeling all over Some average beeks practice various aspects of the METHOD, but many are just inclined to call it beekeeping.Heres a time line for a Mr Heaf that’s written several book on the subject provided by Boston Bees….
“I have to admire Mr Heaf's transparency, but also his sheer hubris. His early timeline goes like this:

2007: 6 Warre hives populated with bees.

2008: All 6 colonies survived the 2007/8 winter (0% winter loss). Some high varroa counts seen (no treatment given of course). More Warre colonies added making 11 in total by the end of the year.

2009: 5 out of the 11 colonies starved during the 2008/9 winter (45% winter loss). Another was found to contain a non-laying queen in May. More Warre hives were populated during the year, making a total of 12. Colonies had to be fed in autumn as they were critically short of stores.

2010: 2 of the 12 failed overwinter due to a non-laying queen (17% winter loss). More Warre hives were added, making a total of 15, but 3 died during the year. At the end of the summer David wrote “Of the 15 colonies in Warrés in the summer, only 12 are going into winter -- the same as last year -- and some of those are already looking as though they will not make it through winter.”

2011: Only 4 out of the 12 over-wintered colonies survived (67% winter loss).

At this point (early 2011) David decided it was the right time to publish “Bee-Friendly Beekeeper: A Sustainable Approach”

I had to look up "Sustainable" and "Friendly" just to make sure I had understood the meaning of those words”

 

[gmonag]

Well, that was useful.

 

[gmonag]

Can I ask what is the rose hive method?

It is method of hive management developed by Tim Rowe.
Essentially the hives are made of one size box throughout, which enables a different way of managing the colony.
Here is an introduction:

 

[Boston Bees]

It involves keeping bees in a box but because the box has a subtle name and you have a METHOD it gives the beek a warm fuzzy feeling all over Some average beeks practice various aspects of the METHOD, but many are just inclined to call it beekeeping. Heres a time line for a Mr Heaf that’s written several book on the subject provided by Boston Bees….
I had to look up "Sustainable" and "Friendly" just to make sure I had understood the meaning of those words”

David Heaf has nothing to do with Tim Rowe's Rose Hive Method, and has never written a book on it. Indeed, their approaches to beekeeping could hardly be more different.

I have great admiration for Tim Rowe.

His book is worth a read, though I don't follow the approach myself The Rose Hive Method | Park Beekeeping

 

[Ian123]

Fair enough I got my warre and roses mixed upI’ve got that warm fuzzy feeling but it’s from my dinner at the pub

 

[gmonag]

Perhaps you could do us all a favour and not post when you are pissed (or even when you are not).

 

[user 20297]

Well, that was useful.

...and repetitive.

 

[Ian123]

Perhaps you could do us all a favour and not post when you are pissed (or even when you are not).

But in the morning I’ll be sober, you’ll still be bitter!

 

[Nannysbees]

It is method of hive management developed by Tim Rowe.
Essentially the hives are made of one size box throughout, which enables a different way of managing the colony.
Here is an introduction:

Thank you

 

[ericbeaumont]

So does anyone leave a super of honey on the hive for the winter?

I leave one super for them. Whilst it’s mainly fructose and glucose, it does contain pollen, vitamins and minerals.

Syrup is said to be just as good as honey - if not better - for overwintering.

Pollen, vitamins and minerals are beneficial when raising brood, but winter food - carbohydrate - is used mainly to produce energy to keep warm.

The absence of pollen, vitamins and minerals results in less waste and so less pressure to fly to dispose of waste.

 

[Patrick1]

More importantly if you take everything off you can measure what you add back, in other words it is easier to weigh 40lb of syrup added that it ia to weigh how much honey is on a hive in supers. Or syrup is about £1.40 kg honey about £15

 

[Curly green finger's]

Syrup is said to be just as good as honey - if not better - for overwintering.

Pollen, vitamins and minerals are beneficial when raising brood, but winter food - carbohydrate - is used mainly to produce energy to keep warm.

The absence of pollen, vitamins and minerals results in less waste and so less pressure to fly to dispose of waste.

True but some queen's only stop laying for a minimal time so the advantage and what i hear and see is wintering with honey and pollen.
My best spring build up was from those left with good honey and pollen stores, and then I still had to feed some fondant. ( rubbish start to spring)
The pressure is also off them in early spring to have to forage to collect imo it swings round abouts.

I'll be leaving honey in supers above (strong singles) Not all colonys are the same strength and weight some will need feeding and some not, first of all I will use the brood frames of stores I've saved through out the season and then feed if the ivy/heather flow is rubbish.
The less I have to feed the better.

 

[elainemary]

True but some queen's only stop laying for a minimal time so the advantage and what i hear and see is wintering with honey and pollen.
My best spring build up was from those left with good honey and pollen stores, and then I still had to feed some fondant. ( rubbish start to spring)
The pressure is also off them in early spring to have to forage to collect imo it swings round abouts.

I'll be leaving honey in supers above (strong singles) Not all colonys are the same strength and weight some will need feeding and some not, first of all I will use the brood frames of stores I've saved through out the season and then feed if the ivy/heather flow is rubbish.
The less I have to feed the better.

I take most of the heather honey off but give back their blossom honey I took off before the flow. If exclusively heather over winter, can contribute to dysentery due to the higher protein content (1.86% heather vs 0.2% blossom) , as Eric has mentioned, if a bad winter, but not a problem with blossom honey.

Some heather goers remove frames with heather but feed back in Spring as it really gives colonies a boost. Brother Adam always used to feed 15lb thick syrup on return from the heather so more balanced feed for winter. Also it’s said (by experienced heather goers) that it helps if you have a locally adapted bee on the heather that’s used to the forage.

Again I learnt the hard way re heather & dysentery in my first season which coincided with a long cold winter. Since then I remove the heather crop feed back blossom stores pre heather and top up with invert. Some heather stays in the brood box but overall a good mixed diet. Works a treat and they come out all guns blazing in the spring

 

[The Poot]

Of those who DO GIVE honey as Winter food -

A) Who leaves a super on top and thus start the new year on brood and a half?
B) Who spins out the honey and feeds back so it’s in the brood box for the Winter?
C) Who nadirs a full super?
D) Who nadirs partly filled or unsealed super and feeds to achieve full weight of stores?

I expect most do variations of the above according to colony and need, but it would be interesting to know what people’s “base line” or “norm” is.

I’m asking as I’m going to have a few unsealed and part sealed supers to deal with and am inclined to spin out and feed back in order NOT to start the new year on brood and a half and all this season, my bees have stored absolutely minimal honey in the brood boxes.

 

[Anduril]

I have a number of colonies, that have never been winter fed with sugar syrup. Their winter crop which they pile in, is himalayan balsam and ivy. I don't feed back honey and I don't add boxes for over wintering. The only time I add a box which is empty of stores, it may be drawn comb or foundation, turning the hive temporarily into double brood, empty brood box beneath the original brood box, is around February/March when they are building up.

 

[ericbeaumont]

learnt the hard way re heather & dysentery

Do ling and bell differ in outcome?

 

[gmonag]

Of those who DO GIVE honey as Winter food -

A) Who leaves a super on top and thus start the new year on brood and a half?
B) Who spins out the honey and feeds back so it’s in the brood box for the Winter?
C) Who nadirs a full super?
D) Who nadirs partly filled or unsealed super and feeds to achieve full weight of stores?

I expect most do variations of the above according to colony and need, but it would be interesting to know what people’s “base line” or “norm” is.

I’m asking as I’m going to have a few unsealed and part sealed supers to deal with and am inclined to spin out and feed back in order NOT to start the new year on brood and a half and all this season, my bees have stored absolutely minimal honey in the brood boxes.

A
Invariably, much of the honey is not consumed so can be extracted in the spring.

 

[Anduril]

Extraction in the spring is not a good practice, this can be a time of year when starvation happens.

 

[Murox]

Assuming there is appropriate space to expand into it's the spring expansion of the colony that really uses up the stores which can lead to starvation. I suppose the key things to know are when your hive is expanding, the state of their stores and knowledge of the available forage in your locale coupled with the prevailing weather conditions; not to mention exactly when "spring" occurs for you.

 

[Curly green finger's]

I take most of the heather honey off but give back their blossom honey I took off before the flow. If exclusively heather over winter, can contribute to dysentery due to the higher protein content (1.86% heather vs 0.2% blossom) , as Eric has mentioned, if a bad winter, but not a problem with blossom honey.

Some heather goers remove frames with heather but feed back in Spring as it really gives colonies a boost. Brother Adam always used to feed 15lb thick syrup on return from the heather so more balanced feed for winter. Also it’s said (by experienced heather goers) that it helps if you have a locally adapted bee on the heather that’s used to the forage.

Again I learnt the hard way re heather & dysentery in my first season which coincided with a long cold winter. Since then I remove the heather crop feed back blossom stores pre heather and top up with invert. Some heather stays in the brood box but overall a good mixed diet. Works a treat and they come out all guns blazing in the spring

Hi Elaine, thanks for the thoughts and the photos, I have quite a few brood frames to give back to colonys which are a mixture of spring and summer I will swap capped brood frames for summer honey and I won't leave any Heather supers on any colonys.
I also wonder as I've been wintering with heath mixed with ivy, clover and what ever, I haven't seen dysentery as yet.
It will be different this year as I have more ling sites so I do plan to do the frame swap.
I also think because of all the ivy near most of my sites that any ling would get mixed anyway..

Had a conversation with a dog walker from down by one of the ling sites and she has two colonys has never seen dysentery and she also takes minimal honey off but treats with api guard...
But has swarming as it sounds like she doesn't do anything about swarming.. ( probably honey bound)