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Colin, ah, that really makes sense. In that case - deep or jumbo, colony will dictate how much one needs to do, but one isn't forced to go bigger (unless there are so many manips, one has to give up the day job!) If I got that right, thank you.

I have considered other hive types, but for me they just don't make sense (as in - not practical, not that I don't 'get' them). I can give some of the reasons for why: I am going to set up a woodworking workshop at some point in the near future, so wooden hives are preferable (I wish they weren't, I do like the idea of the lighter, warmer ones; I also love the beehaus, although I can see the pitfalls, - it's the Mac of beeking world, let's face it!); as GrumpyBunny points out, the local hive type is a factor; irrelevant though it is to my decision, I actually don't like the look of WBCs :) Anyway - nationals it is for now.

Handle a hive of whatever type you are inclined towards BEFORE investing in that style.

Ask around at your Association meeting what other folks are using, and see how many think single-brood national is adequate. (Not many, I'd guess.)

Its not so much the local hive type that matters, so much as the frame type. Its particularly important while you have only one hive - at that point you may be reliant on friends with compatible kit to help you out of any holes you dig yourself into!
Two colonies is a much more independently sustainable situation.
Frame type? National and WBC actually use the identical frame. Beehaus is just an odd-shaped 14x12 (a plastic Dartington ish). You can get 14x12 WBCs (even if you don't like them!) If you cut down the lugs on a National frame, it'll fit in a Smith hive (a simple hive for diy carpenters). And a Smith frame can be used in a National.
Of course a National deep can be used (temporarily - an elastic concept) in a National jumbo aka 14x12. A 14x12 won't fit in a a standard National deep box. But 2 shallows (supers) will make a temporary home for 14x12 frames.
Double brood actually makes more sense than brood and a half.
However, without knowing your weightlifting capability, I'd hesitate to suggest double brood.
Shifting a complete 14x12 needs a bloody good reason, and a helpful pal, but the individual frames aren't too bad at all.

Personally, I'm no longer in any doubt that the bees do better in poly.
There are plenty of bits (floors, coverboards, feeder boards, clearer boards) that you can make from wood, for a poly hive.

If you can, handle as many different hives as possible (even a Topbar, if you can).

Much better than asking what people like, try asking why they like what they do. Then see who's reasons match your priorities.

I like 14x12 for National frame compatibility (and all that brings), long lugs, large single brood capacity (= brood and a half), poly availability. And I am not moving hives to different apiaries for Rape, Heather, or anything!
And I prefer Manley frames in the supers ... but you haven't got that far yet!
 
Handle a hive of whatever type you are inclined towards BEFORE investing in that style.

Ask around at your Association meeting what other folks are using, and see how many think single-brood national is adequate. (Not many, I'd guess.)

Its not so much the local hive type that matters, so much as the frame type. Its particularly important while you have only one hive - at that point you may be reliant on friends with compatible kit to help you out of any holes you dig yourself into!
Two colonies is a much more independently sustainable situation.
Frame type? National and WBC actually use the identical frame. Beehaus is just an odd-shaped 14x12 (a plastic Dartington ish). You can get 14x12 WBCs (even if you don't like them!) If you cut down the lugs on a National frame, it'll fit in a Smith hive (a simple hive for diy carpenters). And a Smith frame can be used in a National.
Of course a National deep can be used (temporarily - an elastic concept) in a National jumbo aka 14x12. A 14x12 won't fit in a a standard National deep box. But 2 shallows (supers) will make a temporary home for 14x12 frames.
Double brood actually makes more sense than brood and a half.
However, without knowing your weightlifting capability, I'd hesitate to suggest double brood.
Shifting a complete 14x12 needs a bloody good reason, and a helpful pal, but the individual frames aren't too bad at all.

Personally, I'm no longer in any doubt that the bees do better in poly.
There are plenty of bits (floors, coverboards, feeder boards, clearer boards) that you can make from wood, for a poly hive.

If you can, handle as many different hives as possible (even a Topbar, if you can).

Much better than asking what people like, try asking why they like what they do. Then see who's reasons match your priorities.

I like 14x12 for National frame compatibility (and all that brings), long lugs, large single brood capacity (= brood and a half), poly availability. And I am not moving hives to different apiaries for Rape, Heather, or anything!
And I prefer Manley frames in the supers ... but you haven't got that far yet!

Very insightful, thank you!
And why Manley, if I may ask? If you recommend them, it is possible to start with some, so I have got nearly that far.

I may find out why myself, I am currently, incidentally, reading his book!

Thanks again,

Ana
 
Manleys should be drawn flatter and with the top and bottom bars being the same width, they act as a simple uncapping guide.
And they use the same (wider) topbar as my 14x12 brood frames. Simpler stock holding, no chance of mistakenly using the wrong one.

That they get stuck together isn't a real problem since you only rarely look at super frames... mostly its just a question of how heavy the box is or isn't!
 
itma, I say what, I'll get some and have a go. Thank you!

flyingfox, thank you!

Update on the not-yet-beeking: I've opted for national standard deeps to begin with! The worst thing that can happen - I will spend the winter having lots of fun making my own ekes/frame extensions. Boohoo, really.

The next thing to worry about is the effect of insecticide spray drifting onto the hives and the protection options.

:nature-smiley-011:
 
I have nationals and if they need more room I double them up.

If your mentors / contacts say that your bees wont need more than one box, and they don’t that’s fine, but if they do you can just sling on another box.

My mongrel bees have needed two boxes.

Its a very flexible system, easy to split, same frames.

I have also made some of my own boxes out of 18mm ply. You just need to adjust the internal measurements as most of the woodworking instruction are detailed for 22mm thick wood boards.

if I was to buy again I would seriously look at the poly options, but if you are in to some diy check out the hive building / diy section on the forum (loads of info there).

I also have a couple of commercial hives but I find the frame lugs a little small to get a good grip (the frames are larger than the national deeps)

don’t worry about trying to get stung it WILL happen sooner or later!

Enjoy its a wonderful thing to learn about!
 
flemage, thank you!!

Update: I have just managed to unpack my as of yet flat bee hive and fill up the kitchen with bits. Three minutes later a honey bee comes through the open door. Who needs a bait hive? Bait kitchen with hive components is all you need!

It's still there, inspecting bits of wax; eyeing the washing machine as a potential home.

A good start! (Bad start? One bee equals many bees?) Now.. where do these nails go..

Best wishes,

Ana
 
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I haven't anything against single skin hives and may in the future end up with both National and WBC. It just needed saying that the extra work argument is a bit irrelevant and the extra skin makes the difference between living in a cavity wall house and one built of single brick thickness.
The foam insulation sheets from builders merchants would make an effective insulating skin for winter but unless you have a durable exterior coating the foam is easily damaged. I may put my thinking head on and see what would make a demountable system. ;-)

folded 0.5mm aluminium on the corners works well.
you dont need to protect all of it I find (if you are using the foil covered kingspan reticel celotex stuff)
 
flemage, thank you!!

. Three minutes later a honey bee comes through the open door. Who needs a bait hive? Bait kitchen with hive components is all you need!



Hi Ana,

I have the same every time.
Within 30 sec's of beginning to build either frames or cedar hives parts a few bees arrive to have a nose around. But then I do normally leave the building until a nice hot day and I am normally in the garden :sunning:

Welcome to the wonderful world of beekeeping by the way.

Dazzabee
 
folded 0.5mm aluminium on the corners works well.
you dont need to protect all of it I find (if you are using the foil covered kingspan reticel celotex stuff)

Aye, so does speedline track. The 52mm stuff slides onto rough 50mm celotex edges, to give flat mating faces. Mastic to stick 'n' seal, masonry paint to pretty it up, job done.
 
A little update!

A bait nuc set up a week ago has attracted a bunch of bees, which were discovered upon our arrival home today. Perhaps that bee we found in the house and chucked into it (well, it flew out, but then back in, attracted by the smell, so we were able to shut the roof), upon exiting, did decide to bring friends!

Not sure if robbing, but there are a few going in/out and seem to be a few inside. Not much to rob for this long, one'd have thought. Tiny cast? Who knows!

Now off to fid out what on earth to do next, there are only three frames in there, spaced badly. How exciting.

Kind regards to all,

Ana
 
Now off to fid out what on earth to do next, there are only three frames in there, spaced badly. How exciting.

Ana

Very exciting ... put another two frames in there - if you haven't got foundation just a starter strip or a dribble of beeswax will do on an empty frame. Leave them alone for about 48 hours and then give them a good feed of a litre of 1:1 syrup to get them off to a flying start. Leave them alone to get on with it for a week or so then have a peek and see what's happening.

Best of luck - free bees - fantastic.
 
A bit late (sorry) but I found 14 x 12 so heavy to work that we resized the colony this spring. If fit fair enough, but any back or spinal problem makes the larger frame almost impossible to work :(
 
pargyle, thank you for the advice! Unfortunately I'm not yet actually equipped to go into the hive, but hopefully will be by mid-week. What should i do with the old comb I have in there, you think? Only two of my frames in there are just new foundation.
Terribly exciting. Had breakfast by the hive, watching them come and go. Don't seem to be carrying anything in our out, but look calm and happy to go about whatever it is they are doing. Mystery!

Queens59, thank you for the advice. I've come to the same conclusion and opted for a standard deep.

Kind regards,

Ana
 
Small update: Exactly a week on, the bees have moved in into the bait nuc. The mystery now solved: the bees that were hanging around were scouts. And as we were sitting around the computer looking up "fanning", the swarm arrived! I now have a happy colony and a few photos of a bee infested garden.

Ana
 
pargyle, thank you for the advice! Unfortunately I'm not yet actually equipped to go into the hive, but hopefully will be by mid-week. What should i do with the old comb I have in there, you think? Only two of my frames in there are just new foundation.
Terribly exciting. Had breakfast by the hive, watching them come and go. Don't seem to be carrying anything in our out, but look calm and happy to go about whatever it is they are doing. Mystery!

Queens59, thank you for the advice. I've come to the same conclusion and opted for a standard deep.

Kind regards,

Ana

So one frame has old comb in it and two frames were just foundation? By the time you have a look at them midweek I reckon they will have made a real start drawing out the two frames with foundation - they will probably have cleaned up the frame with old comb in it and with a bit of luck you'll have some egg/brood in there. If it's a five frame Nuc then put another couple of frames in there - one either side of the three you have. If you don't have foundation or frames just cut a couple of strips of wood to use as topbars with a small strip of wood attached to give them a guide. A swarm just WANTS to build comb ! By midweek they will be going at it hell for leather and a feeder would be a good idea by then as they will use the syrup to draw out comb.

This is what you should be seeing by the time you have a look at them (My frames are foundationless but wired but this is what my swarm has made in under a week).

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=24058&page=8

Post #76
 
pargyle, Morning! Thank you for the advice, I went up a ladder yesterday and managed to fit in the rest of the frames without accident. They started to make wild comb off the crown board (either side of the old comb), so I had to set their efforts back, but they seem happy this morning, already going in and out with spoils. They bits they have managed to make were quite impressive (about 70% the size of yours, but in just over 24 hours!) so I definitely owe them some feed.

What gentle souls, too! Considering how close I was to the entrance, and that I had to shake them off, they didn't care at all. I am officially in love. Fingers crossed they survive.

Ana
 
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I went up a ladder yesterday and managed to fit in the rest of the frames without accident. They started to make wild comb off the crown board (either side of the old comb), so I had to set their efforts back, but they seem happy this morning, already going in and out with spoils. They bits they have managed to make were quite impressive (about 70% the size of yours, but in just over 24 hours!) so I definitely owe them some feed.

How long are you going to leave this nuc /swarm where it can only be reached by ladder?
 
pargyle, Morning! Thank you for the advice, I went up a ladder yesterday and managed to fit in the rest of the frames without accident. They started to make wild comb off the crown board (either side of the old comb), so I had to set their efforts back, but they seem happy this morning, already going in and out with spoils. They bits they have managed to make were quite impressive (about 70% the size of yours, but in just over 24 hours!) so I definitely owe them some feed.

What gentle souls, too! Considering how close I was to the entrance, and that I had to shake them off, they didn't care at all. I am officially in love. Fingers crossed they survive.

Ana

By spoils do you mean foraged pollen etc or have you left the wild comb you removed nearby? This is undesirable as its smell may attract wax moth etc.
Sorry if this is teaching grandmother to suck eggs.
 

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