Hello from sunny N'ants

[MonseigneurBienvenu]

Hi!

Just starting out on the long path of beekeeping in sunny Northamptonshire! I am really only just at the point where the whole family is trying to remember whether I'd ever been stung by a bee or a wasp before; where we've traipsed (mentally and physically) to every possible nook in every possible field that's South-East facing with some cover, and where I am constantly noticing how the garden gets nothing but bumblebee visits (yes, I want to stick a honey bee into my arm... although I'll be sorry in more ways than one).

Oh, and I've been told categorically not to go for 14x12, but to use deep nationals instead (I'm told there is no hope of having to go to one and a half or double brood).

So there it is, I just hope I've got my head screwed on well enough to deal with all the opinions!

Best wishes to everyone,

Ana

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

Welcome!

It's a great craft to take up. I've found it so much fun and a great challenge.

I'm only in my second season, but really surprised to hear the view that you'll not even need brood and a half let alone 14 x 12. I think there will be a lt f informed opinion to the contrary here.

I have 14 x 12 for my home hives and was persuaded to stick with brood and a half for a hive I look after on Manchester Cathedral roof. For me, the latter was a big mistake and I've now converted it with an eke. Found brood and a half too stressful (where is HM?) and more than double the work. The main problem has been the faffing around gradually changing over the fames. And not having immediate compatibility with some of my peers.

As my old mother used to say, "What holds more holds less" and I'm happy with my decision. However, it's a personal thing. Just surprised at the pessimism of your advice.

Enjoy.

Dusty

 

[MonseigneurBienvenu]

Afternoon, Dusty!

I was surprised also, to be perfectly honest, so now have a lot of thinking to do as a result (and I've done plenty up till now, so this is like being back to square two!). I was advised that the black British mongrel will fill a deep national and won't need any more. And that other Queens over-produce (in comparison) and therefore then have trouble in the winter with such a massive population. Another note was on the fact that the British bee in question won't want to fill a 14x12, so I'll just 'lose' honey to the brood box (more so than with a smaller size).

Personally I want to avoid 1 1/2 or x2 as a priority, but his point was: you will avoid it, there is no need for a bigger brood space of any kind.

I didn't take notes, so I may be 'mis-quoting,' don't judge too harshly; not really looking for a heated debate.
Locally-wise knowledge, perhaps? Type of bee/locality thing? Don't know, but will endeavour to find out!

Best,

Ana

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

Hi Ana,


Yes, it's difficult when your personal contact has strong opinions.
And there are plenty like that on this Forum!
The person who advised me to stay with brood and a half is Quite Important as well. But I was too opinionated (or stupid!) to do as I was told!

I guess because it affected only one hive, and I made up my mind by working two systems concurrently, it didn't matter too much. It would have been different if I'd invested a lot of cash on one set of equipment (e.g. in a TBH or Warre) then changed my mind.

Take your time. My sense is that there are a lot of vociferous beekeepers - but the bees are more chilled than we are!

Hope it all goes well for you.

Dusty

 

[Luminos]

ana
I had one colony on double brood and it was a real faff, especially as they glued everything together with propolis.
I agree with Dusty. All mine are now on 14 x 12.

 

[MonseigneurBienvenu]

Good evening!

Yes, I agree that double would be a double faff. However, I was told that a single deep (standard, not 14x12) is plenty!

Who knows,

Best wishes and good night!

Ana

 

[galileo]

Howdo Ana

Nice to virtually meet you. Dunno where in Northants you are but I'm between Wellinbugger and Olney and here, single brood standard deep isn't quite enough, unless early swarms are your thing. Double IS or can be a bit of a faff, but 14x12 gets a bit heavy on the back unless it's at just the right height.

Are you a member of the NBKA perchance?

Anyhoo, enjoy!

 

[MonseigneurBienvenu]

Hi there, galileo!

Very nice to meet you also! I am on the opposite side of Wellingborough and will be a member as soon as it makes sense to be! At the moment the Sunday sessions are the thing. Do you go?

Interesting what you say about doubles, I suspected that just the one can't be enough! Unless the advice-giver has some special bees indeed, and perhaps he does. I wasn't going to move my hives, hence the yearning for a bigger box.

It all isn't a problem though. Either way the bees'll be fine, and one can always swap kit later (albeit at some expense).

Kind regards,

Ana

 

[galileo]

Hi Ana

Yes, I'm over on Sunday morn as oft as can be, though I didn't go yesterday because I had a hive to shift in the evening (10pm by the time it was settled) and it needed preparing. A bit chilly though anyhow, according to dispaches.

Box size is a 6 of one, half dozen of the other thing really, but as I found to my considerable cost, it's a decision better made in advance than in retrospect, and when the inevitable growth from 1 hive to *ahem* occurs, having all the kit in the same format makes life much easier.

We've probably met over a box of bees between veils - hard to identify folk through mesh, but I'm and will be the chap with the straw hat. Mayhap see you there sometime.

Best regards,

Marc

 

[RogueDrone]

Ana, box size all comes down to the management of the colony you cna keep to single BB but requires more manipulations. I am going over to 14*12 but the 3 I hand comming into last winter all had problems. Last winter 12/13 was an exception so am going to give them a second chance and slowly moving a few colonies up through the season.

the choice is what is easier for you. Also consider the other hive styles before you start to spend.

Colin

 

[BeeJayBee]

Also consider the other hive styles before you start to spend.

Exactly! There's nothing wrong with Langstroths, by the way.

 

[Luminos]

Also consider the other hive styles before you start to spend.


I'm trialling a Polyhive. Ugly though it is, I suspect I will become a convert and my WBC's will be garden ornaments....
Had you considered a Polyhive?

 

[GrumpyBunny]

I've been told categorically not to go for 14x12, but to use deep nationals instead

What's the difference?

I opted for 14x12 for ease of inspection but beware the frames are quite hefty when full.

My only advice would be to bear in mind what is use in your area as it increases the opportunity for the loan of compatible kit.

Welcome aboard, btw.

 

[MonseigneurBienvenu]

Marc, perhaps see you next week!

Colin, ah, that really makes sense. In that case - deep or jumbo, colony will dictate how much one needs to do, but one isn't forced to go bigger (unless there are so many manips, one has to give up the day job!) If I got that right, thank you.

I have considered other hive types, but for me they just don't make sense (as in - not practical, not that I don't 'get' them). I can give some of the reasons for why: I am going to set up a woodworking workshop at some point in the near future, so wooden hives are preferable (I wish they weren't, I do like the idea of the lighter, warmer ones; I also love the beehaus, although I can see the pitfalls, - it's the Mac of beeking world, let's face it!); as GrumpyBunny points out, the local hive type is a factor; irrelevant though it is to my decision, I actually don't like the look of WBCs Anyway - nationals it is for now.

Thanks to everyone for the insightful comments, without them I would have found it much more difficult to reason through the thing. Fingers crossed for some good weather again soon!

Kind regards,

Ana

 

[GrumpyBunny]

At the risk of making another irrelevant remark WBC are even more work than brood and a half or double brood as you also have to remove and stack the lifts as well.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

At the risk of making another irrelevant remark WBC are even more work than brood and a half or double brood as you also have to remove and stack the lifts as well.

That "extra" work takes me about 60 seconds

 

[Lesley Hoppy]

That "extra" work takes me about 60 seconds

I agree! All this talk about WBCs being 'extra' work is nonsense - 60 seconds max!

So many benefits - the double walled insulation makes sense in winter and summer - and the aesthetic feature at the end of the garden is important to me ....

I did change to 14x12 incidentally - to increase the brood space. No prob with that either.

 

[MonseigneurBienvenu]

GrumpyBunny, it's my dislike of the look of the WBCs that's irrelevant to my decision, not your remark! Teehee, I put my punctuation in with care ;-)

Gilberdyke, Lesley, it is something to consider with these harsh winters, I have to admit! I may have to put my designer hat on for this one to come up with an alternative.

Kind regards,

Ana

 

[steve56616]

Hi there, galileo!

Very nice to meet you also! I am on the opposite side of Wellingborough and will be a member as soon as it makes sense to be! At the moment the Sunday sessions are the thing. Do you go?

Interesting what you say about doubles, I suspected that just the one can't be enough! Unless the advice-giver has some special bees indeed, and perhaps he does. I wasn't going to move my hives, hence the yearning for a bigger box.

It all isn't a problem though. Either way the bees'll be fine, and one can always swap kit later (albeit at some expense).

Kind regards,

Ana

Hi Ana

Im in Finedon so seems a few of us are quite close

 

[Gilberdyke John]

GrumpyBunny, it's my dislike of the look of the WBCs that's irrelevant to my decision, not your remark! Teehee, I put my punctuation in with care ;-)

Gilberdyke, Lesley, it is something to consider with these harsh winters, I have to admit! I may have to put my designer hat on for this one to come up with an alternative.

Kind regards,

Ana

I haven't anything against single skin hives and may in the future end up with both National and WBC. It just needed saying that the extra work argument is a bit irrelevant and the extra skin makes the difference between living in a cavity wall house and one built of single brick thickness.
The foam insulation sheets from builders merchants would make an effective insulating skin for winter but unless you have a durable exterior coating the foam is easily damaged. I may put my thinking head on and see what would make a demountable system. ;-)