Heavy lifting associated with a brood and a half

[andy-glide]

Ok so I am not getting any younger and have a tendency to develop a sore back when lifting heavy objects.

Putting my medical probles asside |would like to try running a brood and a half next season. Problem is that I could see an issue when lifting a full brood box to inspect the lower half.

Would it be possible to run the supper on top of the brood box and only inspect the lower box on a few occassions?

 

[DanBee]

Brood and a half is not a good idea as you put yourself in the least manageable situation you could choose. Hive patterns are there for beekeeper convenience, principally - the bees will make do with any old container.

If you are having problems lifting a national brood, then double brood is probably not the route, although far preferable to brood and a half. That said, a national brood full of bees is not overly heavy, but I suspect you are concerned about it being semi-filled with stores around the brood nest. Remember that the cluster will generally move upwards until contained by the queen excluder. Poly will reduce weight of boxes, but not tackle weight of stores.

Another option would be to go to either 14x12 or Commercial brood boxes. Both share the national footprint so are cost effective upgrades; some find the extra length of the 14x12 frames makes them difficult to handle.

I ran a test a couple of seasons ago of triple supers as a brood area, worked well and was easy to lift apart, and crucially maintained the same frame size throughout the brood area. Use Hoffman sidebars for 11 frames, rather than the wider spacings, and avoid castellated supers for obvious reasons.

 

[andy-glide]

There seems to be a general trend on brood and a half threads that they are not recommended. Can anyone advise the pros and cons for this config?

Would have thought the advantages are a larger laying area but the dissadvantages are that swarm control becomes an issue.

If I did use a double brood woruld you need to inspect the lower brood as I assume the upper would be a good indication of status?

 

[mbc]

Ok so I am not getting any younger and have a tendency to develop a sore back when lifting heavy objects.

Putting my medical probles asside |would like to try running a brood and a half next season. Problem is that I could see an issue when lifting a full brood box to inspect the lower half.

Would it be possible to run the supper on top of the brood box and only inspect the lower box on a few occassions?

I know many beekeepers who successfully practice brood and a half configuration beekeeping and they all have the half on top.
The standard inspection involves tipping the top half to take a glance at the bottom of the top frames to see whats going on, and thats it unless the glance showed any need for further action eg. charged cells, no stores, no space etc.
Unless you consider migrating the hives I cant see that the configuration would be any harder with a bad back.

 

[oliver90owner]

Err? The deep goes on the bottom and the shallow on top? The 'half' refers to the shallow in relation to the size of a deep. Whether you want to be different than all the sensible people out there who put the half on top, I am not quite sure (ie by running a half and a brood.

The idea is that you inspect both boxes as and when necessary, but do not need to lift a deep brood at any time.

 

[Cazza]

Whether you go for double brood or brood and a half or whatever, take a look at other ways to reduce the chance of back pain.

My back is not good so:

1. I use a lifting belt which I now swear by.
2. I have a trolley which I take to each hive so that the roof goes on top of it to raise the height so that I lift across rather than up and down.

Since using these simple aids I have been more or less back pain free.

Cazza

 

[mbc]

Whether you go for double brood or brood and a half or whatever, take a look at other ways to reduce the chance of back pain.

My back is not good so:

1. I use a lifting belt which I now swear by.
2. I have a trolley which I take to each hive so that the roof goes on top of it to raise the height so that I lift across rather than up and down.

Since using these simple aids I have been more or less back pain free.

Cazza

Good post.
I would add to try and avoid holding your smoker between your knees, especially if you're trying to shuffle about with both hands full, not only does this pose put strain on your back but if anyone happens to observe you they will be in danger of splitting their sides

 

[Cazza]

Good post.
I would add to try and avoid holding your smoker between your knees, especially if you're trying to shuffle about with both hands full, not only does this pose put strain on your back but if anyone happens to observe you they will be in danger of splitting their sides

You are quite right. I tried this again recently having read Roger P's book who is a propronent. I then remembered why it is so silly. You reduce your lifting base and definately put strain on your back AND smoke gets in your eyes.
Cazza

 

[Bungalow]

I really can't see how arranging the brood nest over two frames of different sizes and then breaking them apart regularly is a good idea. You upset the bees, you have more parts to examine, you have more frames and foundation to stock.

There must be a point, but I can't see it.

Just use a box that is big enough!

I can JUST see the point of running all supers - especially Langstroth size - and using one, two or three boxes, depending on purpose (queen-rearing, nuc, or honey brood).

But I am reading this topic with interest, hoping to be enlightened.

 

[Finman]

Ok so I am not getting any younger and have a tendency to develop a sore back when lifting heavy objects.

Putting my medical probles asside |would like to try running a brood and a half next season. Problem is that I could see an issue when lifting a full brood box to inspect the lower half.

Would it be possible to run the supper on top of the brood box and only inspect the lower box on a few occassions?

It is better to keep same size brood boxes. So kep 2 or 3 medium boxes.

In practice in 3 box system lowest is full of pollen and it is a buffer between out air and brood.

2 mediums are good too, better that langstroth + medium.

.Many guys here, who has difficulties with back bone, they keep merely mediums.
It suits to women too.

But actullally full brood box is light. It is lighter than full medium honey box.


.

 

[oliver90owner]

... arranging the brood nest over two frames of different sizes and then breaking them apart...

Not sure that your comment would be any different for double brood either. Ie two boxes but the same sized frames. So not really sure whether you are against two boxes or two different sized frames or are trying to impose Langstroths on all and sundry.

Beekeeping is often a compromise between what the bees want and practicality. Unless you are a supposed 'natural' laughing-smiley-004) beekeeper, apparantly.

Going 14 x 12 is the obvious way forward with one box (for a National user), but the problem then arises if the OP were to need to lift the brood box. Going bigger almost always means more weight.

 

[itma]

... would like to try running a brood and a half next season. Problem is that I could see an issue when lifting a full brood box to inspect the lower half.

Would it be possible to run the supper on top of the brood box and only inspect the lower box on a few occassions?

You can do a basic 'queen cells' inspection by just "tipping" the upper box, and inspecting the exposed frame bottoms of that upper box.

Its not really enough, unless you have lots and lots of colonies and are unworried by losing the occasional swarm, etc.
A proper inspection means frames out and that means lifting away the upper box.

I like 14x12. Migrated there from National. You can use an eke with a standard Nat brood to take 14x12 frames.
However lifting a well-stocked 14x12 (should you ever need to) ... well, just ask someone round to help.

Perhaps you should take on an eager, strong, fit beginner to give you a hand and gain some experience?

 

[drex]

I will happily run brood and half, if that is what the bees dictate. The half on the top. If I know they will need more I use double brood. I do not see any problem. I have enough supers with runners rather than castellations. As the half fills with honey towards end of season, I usually just bung it underneath. Plenty of winter stores.

 

[Nic Rhodes]

I would try two boxes of Langstroth mediums (Dadant supers) in this situation. Large brood area but split between two equal boxes.

 

[Finman]

.
When you use douple brood boxes, there are sveral important thing in nursing.

- change the order of boxes that combs get old evenly and finally exit.

- Pollen frames are easy to move from box to box

- you may arrange frames between boxes. And if there are honey frames in the brood boxe, lift them up to super.

- if you have pollen frames in supers, put them into brood box and bees clean them.

- if you want exit a dark brown frame, let the queen ay it full, and lift it over excluder. Bees emerge , combs will be full of honey. Then extract and take way.

- If you have a good quieen, give a third box for brood.

- Be flexiple. These things are not carved onto stone.
.

 

[Finman]

.
This a typical frame. Half of cells are unused and the centre is out of date.
In douple brood systen when you turn the boxes, cells will be used evenly.

This comb is used evenly and it is time to take it off from usage

how to play with pollen stores is essential to wellfare of brood rearing and to foraging capacity. If the space is too small, pollen and nectar limits the brood rearing.

 

[Finman]

.
ffffffffffffffffffffff
douple

 

[BeeNice]

Slightly off topic, why would you hold a smoker between your legs!! When looking into the bees and you have given smoke you just need it to hand, on the ground would do, without allowing the smoke to drift over the hive anymore than needs be.
As far as brood and half goes, the main problem is inter changeable frames between boxes, you can't, with double brood boxes you can. But sometimes double brood is to much for the bees and single is not enough. So, its up to you how you do your beekeeping.
Steven

 

[Ely]

Good post.
I would add to try and avoid holding your smoker between your knees, especially if you're trying to shuffle about with both hands full, not only does this pose put strain on your back but if anyone happens to observe you they will be in danger of splitting their sides

If you put an inverted clothes hook on the back of the smoker you can hook it onto the broodbox while inspecting.

 

[Cazza]

I really can't see how arranging the brood nest over two frames of different sizes and then breaking them apart regularly is a good idea. You upset the bees, you have more parts to examine, you have more frames and foundation to stock.

There must be a point, but I can't see it.

Just use a box that is big enough!
QUOTE]

The simple point is:
I have back pain. I simply CANNOT lift a box bigger than a national safely. I would if I could but I can't.
Cazza