have I lost my Queen?

[alysonmaria]

Hi,
this is my first post so please be patient and gentle with me!
Bought my first colony 17 days ago. On 14x12 national frames with super of undrawn foundation above so have plenty of room to expand.
Have seen the Queen on a number of occasions but not during the past 2 inspections. I haven't seen any eggs since day 1 but that may just be my eyesight, as I have seen plenty of capped brood and larvae.
Having read other posts on the forum I have been feeding them for the past 4 days with sugar syrup (1:1 strength), and they appear to have plenty of stores. The bees were lovely at first, very gentle, it was as though they knew I was new to beekeeping! However, over the past week they have become quite angry, lots of them buzzing around me when I inspect, pinging against my veil, and have stung me a number of times. I have seen about 10 queen cells since I had the colony and I keep removing them (all sealed with larvae and royal jelly) but I am now worried that as I haven't seen my queen should I be leaving the Queen cells on so that I've got a replacement if she has disappeared?
Any suggestions as to what may be going on?

 

[hiveabee]

If you dont see eggs your queen may not be there. Remember how to tell how old eggs are. Upright = 1 day Leaning over = 2 days on their side 3 days old. Also if you have sealed queen cells your queen could have gone with a swarm. You say you have seen the queen on a number of occasions, dare I ask how many times you have inspected them during the '17 days' you have had them. Twice during that time would have been plenty. I did the same thing with my 1st colony and lost my queen, but I learnt my lesson.

 

[oliver90owner]

They have likely swarmed at some point, so your queen is likely no longer there. Generally, at most, about six days after she may have gone will be the last opportunity for the bees to make a replacement, but it could easily be as few as four.

The apparent change in temperament could be associated with this.

I fear they may not be making any more, so if there are any, you need to be leaving one or two.

Get back to us for the next move, after checking for queen cells now.

RAB

 

[alysonmaria]

how many times you have inspected them during the '17 days' you have had them.

that would be 5 times!
I know-no more than once a week, but was having problems with queen excluder and just wanted to make sure the little darlings were OK!
Now realise I have probably done more harm than good

RAB- I last checked them this morning and took a sealed Queen Cell off- I will leave them alone now and check again at the weekend, and if anymore appear I will leave them on as advised. If no more appear I guess I'll check with our local beekeeping association if anyone has any spare queens.

 

[SenatorMagenut]

Hard luck alysonmaria

Remember that it takes a colony 3-4 days to fully recover from being looked through. I think I heard somewhere that you can buy mated queens with only a few workers in a matchbox like thing. Could anyone share their greater knowledge on that? I fear it may be too late or your queen cells to work.

Happy Beekeping,
Senatormagenut

 

[flemage]

If full mated queens arent avaible as there has been lots of issues with the weather and getting them mated, you could try and beg a frame with eggs on it and put that in with the brood nest and see if they bring a queen cell out of that.

You would want the eggs from a good queen and be mindful that the frame should be clear of any problems like varroa in the capped cells etc though.

 

[oliver90owner]

Right, no queen cells now, but when did you first remove the first and subsequent sealed cells?

I have my doubts that any further cells will be made, but one can never be totally sure, what with the weather as it has been recently.

If you go the route you are suggesting, your colony will likely have a different temperament, eventually, but they should advise.

An alternative is a new bought-in queen (more likely to get a decent crop), but again as a beginner you might well need assistance with introduction. The cost of a new laying queen could be offset by just a few jars of honey crop, but the season is moving along and there is not going to be a bumper crop this year for many, if any.

 

[george]

Alyson can I ask if you have seen a noticeable reduction in bee numbers ?
If not you may have either damaged/killed her during an inspection(it happens) or she was struggling and being superceded . Though lots of q cells suggests not .
G

 

[oliver90owner]

Good point, George. The possibility of supercedure was missed by me.

So, alysonmaria, perhaps the question should have been asked as to what open brood is present, now.

Inability to see eggs is a bit of a handicap, but a new beek of 17 days has time to learn!

And one doesn't expect them to do 'unusual' things after only the first week!!

Bee numbers may not be easy to estimate as there may be a week or more of emerged brood to disguise any drop due to a swarm.

RAB

 

[alysonmaria]

Thanks everyone for your helpful advice and suggestions.
George and RAB-I haven't noticed a reduction in bee numbers but realise this is difficult to assess especially for a new bee keeper. All frames in the brood box are always covered in bees when I open the hive up, with smaller numbers in the super. There still appears to be plenty of open brood in the frames-am going to try wearing my reading glasses to check for eggs next time I inspect as it may just be my poor eyesight missing the eggs?

 

[hiveabee]

Keep at it, we all make mistakes. I really wouldn't bother with queen excluder and super with your 1st colony (your seller should have told you this). get them built up for next year and forget about honey for yourself this year. That was the sound advise I took from my mentor. Unless we have an exceptional 2 months.

 

[madasafish]

PM sent

 

[oliver90owner]

as it may just be my poor eyesight missing the eggs?

You should know, not me! It is likely if you need reading spectacles.

Eggs are unmistakale once you get the hang of seeing them. You look for them in areas you expect to find them - concentric rings around open brood or the central spaces left by emerging brood (she usually starts in the middle of the frame and lays outwards).

Once able to spot them you can then tell their age - initially standing upright, then leaninig and then laying flat - then hatched.

Remember eggs hatch but the fully formed workers etc emerge. Subtle differencebut lots use the wrong word and this can cause time-line difficulties - eggs hatch at day three, bees emerge at day 16, 21 or 24. We normally use the word hatch but no shell, as such, is involved with bee eggs/larvae and the transition is one like the egg just 'melting' away.

It will almost certainly be supercedure if they are still making the odd (in number) queen cells at a time and there is still eggs and young brood present. Supercedure cells take a different form than swarm cells. Usually single, on the face of the frame (often central) and built away just clear from the face of the frame, hanging vertically. Bound to be photos of different types of queen cell on u-toob.

Regards, RAB

 

[Hebeegeebee]

With queencells and bad tempered bees, then the colony is queenless. By destroying the queencells the colony can become hopelessly queenless - i.e. does not have the ability to create a new queen.
You do need to see eggs. If you see them then you know the queen is present or was present within the past 3 days - only then can you consider removing queencells. Once larvae are 3 days old, then the colony will unlikely be able to raise a queen.
You'll need to look for emergency queencells which will be built in/around the brood comb too.

Do you have an experienced beekeeper who can have a look-see?

I find it difficult to see eggs now unless the light is correct - in dark comb in the evening I don't stand a chance - a polished cell can look like it has eggs in it when there are none. Glasses yes if you use them. A magnifying glass could otherwise be used if you don't like having glasses on under a veil. I have a poundland pair of specs in a nitrile glove in my bee box with pen, drawing pins, scissors etc eyc. A small torch can be used to shine light into the cells to make eggs and larvae easier to see.

 

[Teemore]

I'll second the recommendation for a small torch. One resides more or less permanently in my bee box. Most of my colonies are in the open so the light is (usually) fairly good for inspections but if its is overcast and for those few hives that are somewhat shaded, the torch can be a boon.

 

[alysonmaria]

A very helpful 'madasafish' has offered to come and look through my hive with me at the weekend.
I'll keep you all posted on what's happening.

 

[alanf]

I'll second the recommendation for a small torch

I'll admit I have trouble seeing eggs if it's at all gloomy. In perfect light, nice clean comb, remembered to put the reading glasses on before zipping and angled correctly it's all perfectly visible, but in the shadow of trees or overcast and it's much more difficult.

I've tried torches but have not found a way of holding them that works for me. Maybe I'm using the wrong torch or angle. I know this may appear to be the ramblings of a gadget nut, but one thought that struck is to try an otoscope, the device that doctors use to look in your ear. Light and magnification in one and designed to look in small holes. Being medical kit, they expect to be sterilised with an alcohol wipe or similar. Basic 'home use' versions appear on ebay, amazon and so on for around 20 quid, budget models under 10. Anyone tried using one?