Harvesting honey at this time of year

[marmite]

Hi I am relatively new to beekeeping and have 2 hives which have not been harvested this year. One hive is very strong with this year's queen and has 2 supers which are fairly heavy. The other has one super which is fairly heavy, with last year's queen but bees are only on 6 frames.
We grow a lot of rape seed around here so some of the honey may have been in the hive for some time.
I also bought some Apilife var yesterday which I am intending to put on the hives in the next couple of days.

What are my options please?
Do I try to take the honey off, then treat and feed
Or do I leave all the Supers on for winter feed and just treat
Or do I leave all the supers on for winter feed and treat and feed

As a newcomer your advice would be very much appreciated.

 

[drstitson]

1. any OSR will have set hard.
2. it's getting a bit late to use thymol based treatments.

probably best to decide what you want to do about the harvest and then treat with MAQS for a short hard hit.

 

[marmite]

Thanks.I'm not bothered about the honey but will the bees take the rape seed and other honey as food over the winter or do I have to cut out the foundation and start again.

 

[drstitson]

bees'll use it - remember they are happy with fondant.
the problem is only for us and our need to extract rather than consume in situ!

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Hi I am relatively new to beekeeping and have 2 hives which have not been harvested this year. One hive is very strong with this year's queen and has 2 supers which are fairly heavy. The other has one super which is fairly heavy, with last year's queen but bees are only on 6 frames.
We grow a lot of rape seed around here so some of the honey may have been in the hive for some time.
I also bought some Apilife var yesterday which I am intending to put on the hives in the next couple of days.

What are my options please?
Do I try to take the honey off, then treat and feed
Or do I leave all the Supers on for winter feed and just treat
Or do I leave all the supers on for winter feed and treat and feed

As a newcomer your advice would be very much appreciated.

New myself but I believe the osr honey can be softened with gentle warmth, extracted and whisked to break down the crystals so it becomes "set honey". Whether this is true or not after long periods in the comb I cannot say.
You could hedge your bets by taking the supers off and sealing into plastic bags then treating for varroa. Bear in mind Apilife Var sachets contain two weeks treatment only but a full course is four weeks.
Thats taking things into cold weather and you might need to consider using alternative treatments which are quicker.
There are lots of posts about how much stores colonies need to take them through winter plus feeding/laying space/brood break/treatment effects/winter bees at this time of year. Enough to make your head spin if you listen to everyone!
Personally I would treat after taking the supers off then feed. If the brood is light you could let them have a super each of this years stores. However bear in mind Finnmans regular advice sugar is cheaper than honey.
If it gets really late fondant may be a useful late optional plan b

 

[itma]

New myself but I believe the osr honey can be softened with gentle warmth, extracted and whisked ...

If it is set OSR, it won't come out of the combs in an extractor.

With the right kit (and it is very expensive - "Dana Api Melter") the whole comb can be melted down without overheating the honey (that's the tricky bit).

Likely the best option is to get the bees to recycle it. And next year might be better than now.


/// If you decide to leave the super on (top), you MUST remove the Queen Excluder. The downside is that, next spring, Q will be wanting to start laying in that top box ...

 

[Finman]

New myself but I believe the osr honey can be softened with gentle warmth,

After 35 years experience, it is not possible.

Only way is to feed the honey back next summer.

It must be diluted with water. Otherwise bees carry sugar out like sand. They drop granules onto bottom, and carry out.

.

 

[Finman]

the whole comb can be melted down without overheating the honey (that's the tricky bit).
...

That is very expencive operation. The wax making demans as much honey as the combs have. Melting is biggest disaster in that job.

It is poossible to that you put the frames into 40C weater and it dilutes sugar off.

To save honey, uncap the comb. Then spray water over sugar granules.
Bees can suck 2 millitres sugar from it. Then shake bees off and fill the combs with water. After that bees are able to clean the cells.

If the box has 15 kg honey, it is big money to cast away. Then the destroyed combs, it is as expencive as lost honey.

I have treated these tens of boxes.

.

 

[marmite]

Sorry Itma why do I have to remove the queen excluder if I leave the supers on over the winter

 

[psafloyd]

Thanks.I'm not bothered about the honey but will the bees take the rape seed and other honey as food over the winter or do I have to cut out the foundation and start again.

It may be difficult to extract, but if you leave it for the bees, they won't have any more luck getting it out unless the weather is mild and they can access water.

 

[drstitson]

"why do I have to remove the queen excluder if I leave the supers on over the winter"

cluster moves to where stores are. queen can't. think of the consequences of that happening.

 

[BeeJayBee]

why do I have to remove the queen excluder if I leave the supers on over the winter

Because when it gets cold enough for the bees to cluster, or if the colony wants (needs) to move into the super to eat the stores, the queen cannot go with them because she cannot pass through the QX.

Would the bees move upwards and leave the queen behind, or would they stay beneath the QX and starve?

bees are only on 6 frames

Do you mean there are only 6 frames within the brood box or that you have six frames of mixed brood and the remainder of the box is full of stores?

You don't have 'hive type' in your profile, which would help a bit. Are you using National, 14x12, Langstroth, Dadant etc? Each has different frame sizes and the number of frames can vary too, depending on how the beekeeper arranges their hives.

What are my options please?
Do I try to take the honey off, then treat and feed
Or do I leave all the Supers on for winter feed and just treat
Or do I leave all the supers on for winter feed and treat and feed

If you choose either of the last two and treat whilst leaving the supers in place, can you be sure that none of this honey will be there next Spring, when it could possibly be amalgamated with next year's honey crop? (Contaminated with varroacides)

An average colony will need around 40lbs stores to overwinter, that's what you need to be aiming for. You can achieve this by leaving them enough of what they've collected (you can harvest the surplus), you can harvest the honey and help them top up their stores with 2:1 syrup, or you can harvest the honey and feed them fondant.

Bear in mind that there's still Ivy to flower, it provides both pollen and nectar. The queen still needs space to lay.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

After 35 years experience, it is not possible.

Only way is to feed the honey back next summer.

It must be diluted with water. Otherwise bees carry sugar out like sand. They drop granules onto bottom, and carry out.

.

Thank you for that information

 

[Arfermo]

Ivy beginning to flower today - bees going potty on it as well as the sedum. No feeding yet!!!!

 

[hedgerow pete]

i harvest honey off my hives from may all the way through to late october, depending on whats flowering in the city.

i dont leave supers on durring the winter and they never stop filling them up

 

[Tawny Owl]

You need to remove the queen excluder because the colony moves as a single unit over the food in winter. The colony may move on to the honey above the excluder but would leave the queen behind, at which point she gets cold and dies.

If you wish to leave the honey available for the colony it may be best to place it below your brood box, as the queen usually starts to lay at the top of her chamber at the start of the year. As a beginner though you would probably be best taking it off and feeding, as that can get a bit involved.

 

[marmite]

My Hives are Nationals on 11 frames. I spoke to someone last night who has the facility to separate the wax and honey from the frames. So would you please give me your opinion on the following senario.

Hive 1 which is very strong - Transfer one full Super below Queen excluder to convert colony to brood and half. Feed as normal until bees will take no more. Remove second full Super for extraction.
Hive 2 which is weak - Remove both Supers for extraction and feed as normal until bees will take no more. Remove any frames in brood box which have no stores or brood. Replace empty space with Kingspan. Also insulate roof internally with Kingspan and sides externally. Not sure how much floor to cover.