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After the last ice age everything had to reintroduce itself or be introduced. So, by your measure, every animal and vegetable is non-native.
As above, there's a difference between species getting somewhere naturally or being introduced by man. Your own words have made your stance untenable; it would be wiser to concede with grace.
 
As above, there's a difference between species getting somewhere naturally or being introduced by man. Your own words have made your stance untenable; it would be wiser to concede with grace.
I merely said that Modomnoc did not introduce bees to Ireland, but that they predated him by thousands of years. It's impossible to say if they made it under their own steam or were introduced, but that's irrelevant since anything that's been here more that 1500 years is considered native anyway.

Which specific untenable stance here should I concede?
 
I merely said that Modomnoc did not introduce bees to Ireland, but that they predated him by thousands of years. It's impossible to say if they made it under their own steam or were introduced, but that's irrelevant since anything that's been here more that 1500 years is considered native anyway.

Which specific untenable stance here should I concede?
You said the most likely explanation is they were introduced to Ireland whilst also claiming AMM are native there. It is untenable to hold both those views and be logically consistent. That is clear to anyone with an ounce of common sense and intellectual integrity. The way you try to get around it is by feigning (giving you the benefit of the doubt) stupidity and by conveniently ignoring the difference between native and naturalised, for which the previous sentence to this one is also relevant.

Ireland has plenty of fairy stories.
 
The whole thread is a fairy tale. That’s the point.
apart from the fact that Dewi Sant and Modomnoc actually did exist (I won't attest to the embelishments some others added though)
 
The only thing I have against saints is the proof of status conferred by miracles associated with the person to be canonised. But if we leave that to the side, both saints (people who inspire us) and miracles (things in life and nature that we are marvellous and wonderful) have a lot going for them.
 
Yes....I meant the bit about the bees
probably the original story was that he packed up a few skeps from his apiary at Mynyw with the blessing of Dewi (bees and beekeeping were an important part of David's monastic settlements), and took them back to Ireland with him when he returned to start evangelising over there.
Reading a very interesting book by anthropologist Prof. Alice Roberts at the moment, just at the point when she deals with the fall of Rome which coincided with the rise in Christianity and (this is just simple paraphrasing and condensing a complex evolution) the fact that all the administrators and high status 'civil servants' seeing that their cosy sinecures and palaces were at an end just changed their job titles and thus the foundation of the church in Rome commenced and the building and expansion of the empire just carried on in another guise. Of course miracles and such were a handy tool to keep the great unwashed in awe and later became a compulsory prerequisite of canonisation.
In the early Celtic church (which was a separate entity to Rome but they quickly made moves to take it over) A saint was just a holy person, usually living a very simple solitary life.
 
The only thing I have against saints is the proof of status conferred by miracles associated with the person to be canonised. But if we leave that to the side, both saints (people who inspire us) and miracles (things in life and nature that we are marvellous and wonderful) have a lot going for them.

probably the original story was that he packed up a few skeps from his apiary at Mynyw with the blessing of Dewi (bees and beekeeping were an important part of David's monastic settlements), and took them back to Ireland with him when he returned to start evangelising over there.
Reading a very interesting book by anthropologist Prof. Alice Roberts at the moment, just at the point when she deals with the fall of Rome which coincided with the rise in Christianity and (this is just simple paraphrasing and condensing a complex evolution) the fact that all the administrators and high status 'civil servants' seeing that their cosy sinecures and palaces were at an end just changed their job titles and thus the foundation of the church in Rome commenced and the building and expansion of the empire just carried on in another guise. Of course miracles and such were a handy tool to keep the great unwashed in awe and later became a compulsory prerequisite of canonisation.
In the early Celtic church (which was a separate entity to Rome but they quickly made moves to take it over) A saint was just a holy person, usually living a very simple solitary life.
Biblically, saint is just another word for a Christian.
 
Biblically, saint is just another word for a Christian.
but you would never make money from pilgrims coming to see the relics of just any old Christian - so they had to make it something special to rake in the cash. Hence the odd miracle to add spice to the transaction.
 

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