Glyphosate residue in sugar

[Nordicul]

Glyphosate residue in sugar.

Hi All,

Not long after I took on the responsibility of keeping bees, I was about to do my usual Spring practice of weed killing using Glyphosate AKA "Roundup"....On impulse, thinking of my new charges I googled "Bees" and "Roundup" and got an eye opener on its detrimental effects on the bees! No longer do I use it, and invested in a strimmer instead.

Now as I embark on Autumn feeding I was reminded that Glyphosate residues have been found in sugar. It has not helped help that Monsanto developed a Glyphostate resistant sugar beet allowing producers to spray the stuff ad lib onto the beet crop.

In a thread on "Hiveclean" https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=38076&page. Pete D posted this 16 September 2016

'The Food and Drug Administration, under public pressure to start testing samples of U.S. food for the presence of a pesticide that has been linked to cancer, has some early findings that are not so sweet.
In examining honey samples from various locations in the United States, the FDA has found fresh evidence that residues of the weed killer called glyphosate can be pervasive - found even in a food that is not produced with the use of glyphosate. All of the samples the FDA tested in a recent examination contained glyphosate residues, and some of the honey showed residue levels double the limit allowed in the European Union,"

In May of this year https://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/press/news/180517 the European food safety authority (EFSA) completed a review of their Maximum residue levels (MRL) for pesticide and herbicides in food which are considered safe, ie not expected to pose a risk to human or animal health.

Now I'm no expert on this subject but it seems to me that the thrust of the EFSA's work is on human health not bee health. To my mind there should be no acceptable level (MRL) of Glyphosate in the sugar I feed to my bees! (I've not been able to find out what the MRL for Glyphosate in sugar is, does anyone know?)

So am I off the wall in being concerned about feeding Glyphosate tainted sugar to my bees?
The only answer I can see now, would be in future, to only use their own honey as feed, all be it that, that it too is potentially contaminated from herbicide treatments, at least I'm not knowingly giving Glyphosate contaminated sugar.

Nordicul

 

[Hivemaker.]

The only answer I can see now, would be in future, to only use their own honey as feed

What will you do if they don't have any honey.

Never seen any ill effects from feeding bees either beet or cane sugar.

 

[Beefriendly]

The only answer I can see now, would be in future, to only use their own honey as feed, all be it that, that it too is potentially contaminated from herbicide treatments, at least I'm not knowingly giving Glyphosate contaminated sugar.

Nordicull

If it's any assistance I have been feeding bees sugar (+ presumably Glyphosphate) for years as their winter feed. All the bees I feed in the autumn die next spring. Sigh!
Fortunately, they all live long enough to kick-start the next generation.
But glyphosphates are the least of your worries...A recent study in Belgium on pesticide residues found in bees-wax found many.
The most alarming was they found traces of lindane (gamma-HCH) and dichlorodiphenyltrichloroethane (including its breakdown product dichlorodiphenyldichloroethylene), two insecticides that are banned in Europe.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4391733/

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

So am I off the wall in being concerned about feeding Glyphosate tainted sugar to my bees?

Yes

 

[Nordicul]

Hi Again,

Thanks Hivemaker I'm a pragmatist and if push comes to shove re feeding sugar then of course I'd use it. However where I have the chance to reduce their exposure to Glyphosate then I will.

I Know too that no one will knowingly do harm to their bees by feeding them poison, however it is only now that the short and long term effects of low doses of Glyphosate on bees are being discovered. What is today's gospel may become tomorrows heresy.

Thanks BeeFriendly for sharing that horror story about the pesticide "Lindane (gamma-HCH) and dichlorodiphenyltrichloroethane (including its breakdown product dichlorodiphenyldichloroethylene".....and I thought I had enough to worry about in the shape of sugar!

The full May 2018 EFSA review of MRL's of Glyphosphate in food (all 230 pages of it) can be found here:
https://efsa.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.2903/j.efsa.2018.5263

Nordicul

 

[TooBee...]

...the European food safety authority (EFSA) completed a review of their Maximum residue levels (MRL) for pesticide and herbicides in food which are considered safe, ie not expected to pose a risk to human or animal health...

Whenever I hear this kind of phrase it always reminds me of DDT and other such stuff, which was considered safe at the time too. I'm with you, I prefer to do what I can to try and avoid chemicals which no one truly knows the very long term effects of.

Oh, I too use a strimmer for the weeds, I have just recently started using a bio-degradable string for it!

 

[Hivemaker.]

No longer do I use it, and invested in a strimmer instead.

You could also be causing harm to the bees and enviroment using this as well, if it is petrol, do you also use a vehicle, particularly a diesel one?

No doubt some these particulates also end up in their food supply.

This could have serious detrimental effects on the number of honeybee colonies and pollination activity.

https://www.southampton.ac.uk/news/2013/10/03-diesel-exhaust-stops-honeybees.page

 

[Angularity]

Glyphosate residue in sugar.

Hi All,

Not long after I took on the responsibility of keeping bees, I was about to do my usual Spring practice of weed killing using Glyphosate AKA "Roundup"....On impulse, thinking of my new charges I googled "Bees" and "Roundup" and got an eye opener on its detrimental effects on the bees! No longer do I use it, and invested in a strimmer instead.

Now as I embark on Autumn feeding I was reminded that Glyphosate residues have been found in sugar. It has not helped help that Monsanto developed a Glyphostate resistant sugar beet allowing producers to spray the stuff ad lib onto the beet crop.

This crop is still not allowed to be grown anywhere in Europe, so I wouldn't worry about that if you buy UK sugar.

In a thread on "Hiveclean" https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=38076&page. Pete D posted this 16 September 2016

'The Food and Drug Administration, under public pressure to start testing samples of U.S. food for the presence of a pesticide that has been linked to cancer, has some early findings that are not so sweet.

'Linked to cancer' is journalist code for 'is under attack by the Greens and Friends of the Earth'. The amount of glyphosate used in the US would mean that people would be dying in their millions, if these scare warnings were true. They're not. By all means, let's keep testing but the experiment has been running for decades already.

In examining honey samples from various locations in the United States, the FDA has found fresh evidence that residues of the weed killer called glyphosate can be pervasive - found even in a food that is not produced with the use of glyphosate. All of the samples the FDA tested in a recent examination contained glyphosate residues, and some of the honey showed residue levels double the limit allowed in the European Union,"

In May of this year https://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/press/news/180517 the European food safety authority (EFSA) completed a review of their Maximum residue levels (MRL) for pesticide and herbicides in food which are considered safe, ie not expected to pose a risk to human or animal health.

Now I'm no expert on this subject but it seems to me that the thrust of the EFSA's work is on human health not bee health. To my mind there should be no acceptable level (MRL) of Glyphosate in the sugar I feed to my bees! (I've not been able to find out what the MRL for Glyphosate in sugar is, does anyone know?)

The EU MRL for glyphosate residues in sugar beet roots is 1.0 mg/kg; co-incidentally (NOT) this is the Limit of Detection for glyphosate. http://ec.europa.eu/food/plant/pest...vent=pesticide.residue.displayMRL&language=EN

This means that if you can find it on the best machinery available, it's illegal. Also bear in mind that sugar beet roots are 17-21% sugar, and that getting sugar from sugar beet involves quite a lot of processing. So, there is no EU MRL for glyphosate in sugar, because it's already illegal if you find it in the unprocessed roots. Note that this has nothing to do with the toxicity of the molecule; as far as the EU is concerned, if you can find it, that's unacceptable.

MRL's are based on the No Effect Level (NOEL). So, they do animal testing to see what effects they can observe at various concentrations, and through different types of exposure (eyes, skin, eating, inhaling etc.). Then they assume that the bunnies they were working on were the least sensitive, by a factor of 10. then they assume that a bunny is 10 times less sensitive than a person, by a factor of 10. Then they assume that the most sensitive person is 10 times more sensitive than the least sensitive. Then they factor in how much of a particular food you are likely to eat (more residues permitted in parsnips than carrots, because people eat fewer parsnips).

So, let's assume that the residue in the sugar beet roots was 0.9mg/kg, i.e. just below the MRL. Samples aren't routinely tested , I don't think, but the use pattern of the product is designed so that the residues in the crop cannot exceed the MRL. They do this by controlling the use rate and application timing. Imagine that ALL of that evades processing and ends up in the sugar. For round figures, 100kg of roots becomes 17 kg of sugar, so the concentration becomes 11.2mg/kg. That is well over the LOD. You dilute it 1:1 with water, reducing it to 5.6mg/kg. The bees take the syrup and reduce the water content from 50% to 17% (while not absorbing and excreting any of the glyphosate). This raises the concentration to 8.4mg/kg.

This might be useful.
https://www.omicsonline.org/open-ac...-soy-products-2161-0525.1000249.php?aid=36354

I find all the zeroes confusing, but their LOD was 15ng/g which equals 15ug/kg, extremely sensitive equipment seemingly, but I'm not qualified to judge. One German sample had about 41ng/g, or 41ug/kg, or 0.041mg/kg, or 0.5% of our worst case numbers above. All the other European samples were below their LOQ.

None of this addresses the 'so what', i.e. what do these residues do to honey bees or humans.

So am I off the wall in being concerned about feeding Glyphosate tainted sugar to my bees?

'Fraid so.

The only answer I can see now, would be in future, to only use their own honey as feed, all be it that, that it too is potentially contaminated from herbicide treatments, at least I'm not knowingly giving Glyphosate contaminated sugar.

Nordicul

Just don't by US sugar and you'll be fine.

 

[coffindodger]

I wouldn't use glyphosate around a hive, but also don't strim. Slash then wood mulch or something similar just to get access and leave the rest. It is the opinion of some that long grass and weeds confuse wasps and help bees defend the hive.
The sugar question has been answered, but the possible dangers from glyphosate (not just cancer) are difficult to work out because we don't put pure glyphosate on the plants; we use 'Roundup' or other concoctions which include various other materials and it is not feasible to test all these combinations. Nor is it a simple direct effect. Otters were not killed by pesticides (usually), but their foods was.

 

[Angularity]

I wouldn't use glyphosate around a hive, but also don't strim. Slash then wood mulch or something similar just to get access and leave the rest. It is the opinion of some that long grass and weeds confuse wasps and help bees defend the hive.
The sugar question has been answered, but the possible dangers from glyphosate (not just cancer) are difficult to work out because we don't put pure glyphosate on the plants; we use 'Roundup' or other concoctions which include various other materials and it is not feasible to test all these combinations. Nor is it a simple direct effect. Otters were not killed by pesticides (usually), but their foods was.

All the formulation components are tested for safety, like the active substances.

You're quite right about the damage from habitat removal. That's why I'm in favour of high yield agriculture; get the most we can from the smallest area of land.

 

[Nordicul]

Well.....I asked for that!!!!

Thanks Angularity for the thorough de bunking of any notion I had that Glyphosate residue in sugar (not in sugar) was an issue for my bees.

I would like to say I was reassured by your explanation, but in honesty I can't . It is I'm afraid all beyond my ken. I never thought I would be siding with the conspiracy theorists .

Looks like I'll be keeping my head down on this one, having I fear stirred up the proverbial Hornets nest.

Nordicul

 

[Angularity]

Well.....I asked for that!!!!

Thanks Angularity for the thorough de bunking of any notion I had that Glyphosate residue in sugar (not in sugar) was an issue for my bees.

I would like to say I was reassured by your explanation, but in honesty I can't . It is I'm afraid all beyond my ken. I never thought I would be siding with the conspiracy theorists .

Looks like I'll be keeping my head down on this one, having I fear stirred up the proverbial Hornets nest.

Nordicul

No hornets' nest from my point of view. I'm happy to discuss most things, that's how we all learn. I thought I was wrong once, but it turns out I was mistaken.

The key point is that a simple lie can beat a complex truth every time. Now that we live in a time when people don't trust 'experts', it's going to be more and more difficult to know what's going on.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Just don't by US sugar and you'll be fine.

And as Tate and Lyle are a wholly owned US company (as are many sugar cane plantations) - avoid that like the plague as well

 

[WalnutTreeBees]

The Brazilian sugar is the stuff you want to avoid, their pesticide regulations are event more lax than the US, and they supply about 50% of the global market.

Millions of people in the US do suffer with cancer and a whole host of other diseases. Just because something isn't killing you (or your bees) does not mean that it isn't causing harm. What's particularly alarming is the research being done in the affect of Roundup and other pesticides on microorganisms, particularly those found in our guts. Just google 'roundup and gut bacteria' if your interested.


Here's a document detailing the problems with roundup:

http://pan-international.org/wp-content/uploads/Glyphosate-monograph.pdf

Not something that I would personally want to spray around my garden, or anywhere else for that matter.

 

[Beefriendly]

What's particularly alarming is the research being done in the affect of Roundup and other pesticides on microorganisms, particularly those found in our guts.

You are supposed to spray it on plants, not drink the bloody stuff. Although a cupful will kill you, so no practical need to worry about the long-term effects on your gut organisms.

 

[madasafish]

The Brazilian sugar is the stuff you want to avoid, their pesticide regulations are event more lax than the US, and they supply about 50% of the global market.

Millions of people in the US do suffer with cancer and a whole host of other diseases. Just because something isn't killing you (or your bees) does not mean that it isn't causing harm. What's particularly alarming is the research being done in the affect of Roundup and other pesticides on microorganisms, particularly those found in our guts. Just google 'roundup and gut bacteria' if your interested.


Here's a document detailing the problems with roundup:

http://pan-international.org/wp-content/uploads/Glyphosate-monograph.pdf

Not something that I would personally want to spray around my garden, or anywhere else for that matter.

Non beekeeper posts first post on Roundup.

Conspiracy theorists ?

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Non beekeeper posts first post on Roundup.

Conspiracy theorists ?

Back to Paraquat then?

 

[Amari]

Oil seed rape around here is direct-drilled in August into the stubble of this year's harvested cereal crop. The seedlings are already evident. Before sowing the stubble is treated with a weed killer, presumably glyphosate.
Can anyone tell me the glyphosate levels in OSR honey?

 

[Angularity]

You are supposed to spray it on plants, not drink the bloody stuff. Although a cupful will kill you, so no practical need to worry about the long-term effects on your gut organisms.

Wow, you're right. I didn't know that. I'd love to have a clearly-defined fatal dose (for some people more than others), but the worst one I can find is 3530mg/kg in goats (LD50 oral) for pure glyphosate. Almost all of the others are >5000mg/kg, which is where they stop testing.. That means that the average Euro-person of 60kg would have to drink 211.8g of pure glyphosate, which equates to 588mL of Roundup. Quite a big cup.

 

[Angularity]

Oil seed rape around here is direct-drilled in August into the stubble of this year's harvested cereal crop. The seedlings are already evident. Before sowing the stubble is treated with a weed killer, presumably glyphosate.
Can anyone tell me the glyphosate levels in OSR honey?

Oddly enough, yes. You could look at the link in my post on Page one. Here are some more numbers. Alternatively you could buy a copy of the Pesticide Manual; it will only set you back £350.

https://www.bcpc.org/product/the-pesticide-manual-17th-edition

Glyphosate has a DT50 in soil of 1-130 days, depending on the climatic conditions.
So, Joe Farmer sprays glyphosate at the maximum UK rate of 1800g (active substance) per hectare. Worst case, assuming none of it hit the plants it was aimed at, 50% of that is gone 130 days after it's sprayed, so by Christmas. A further 50% is gone by the start of May, when the plants are flowering. So that's potentially 450g of glyphosate left for the plants to take up, potentially disastrous for the crop.

However, the minor fly in the ointment is that, if glyphosate were taken up from the soil by plants, the oilseed rape would have died around two weeks after it was planted, from all the left-over stuff in the soil. What actually happens is that the glyphosate binds extremely tightly to the soil particles, and is not available for the plants to take up.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0048969717302486

Hence no glyphosate residues in OSR honey, just because the nectar has come from an OSR plant grown in the conditions you describe.

My suspicion is that, where glyphosate is found in honey, it's a result of the bees drinking the spray solution because it's tangy and then using that water, or transferring it in their bodies, but I haven't seen any papers on that.