Getting ready for winter

[BeeFarmer]

The supers have been extracted and put back for cleaning so varroa treatment is next. I've been thinking about how I'm going to over winter my largest hive and was therefore looking for suggestions. There are still enough bees to fill nearly 2 supers so I don't particularly want to leave them shoved into a single brood box after removing the supers. Therefore if I was to leave an empty super on for winter would that be recommended? The brood box is full of stores but I'm not sure if I should still feed them and then let them fill the super too. I have another hive which I made the decision to leave with a full super but removing this one was a silly beginners mistake. If I let them fill the super and they're treated for varroa will this taint the comb and render it useless of honey collection/extraction next year or will the smell wear off? Any suggestions for the best route to take?

 

[TOBY-3652]

double brood
that's what I do then feed and feed some more

 

[oliver90owner]

If the bees are still collecting, they need space - still time for them to swarm.

Most colonies will diminish towards winter. 14 x 12s or a brood and a half is mostly more than adequate as the hive should be filled with winter stores to afford the minimum heat loss, etc. A double brood would hold far too much stores and if thymol tainting occurs, that is a lot of stores to use up before next year's crop gets underway.

Not sure what you mean by brood box is full of stores now. It needs moving up into a super and extracting, or extract from stores frames in the brood box. A super over and bruising some of those stores might give another super as a crop in short time. Depends on what you want. Does it mean that brooding is at a minimum, now? Remember your foragers will be all dead and replaced about every three weeks.

Thymol will taint the honey, not the wax.

The season can run on for a long time and depending on what forage is in your area, could yet mean they would not need feeding for the winter. I rarely feed mine with sugar.

You might be able to remove some brood box frames and store them away for later feeding requirements.

The options are all there. Just don't leave them short for the winter.

I usually/often finish up with spare frames of stores each year - but they do need storing carefully. Weaker colonies are easier to provision if surplus is available and the season comes to an abrupt end. Being prepared is better than the weather catching you out.

RAB

 

[Finman]

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If brood is full of stores, from where you get bees for winter cluster?
You should have now a whole brood box free from food that queen can lay.
If you have full honey frames in brood box, extract them.

 

[Finman]

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It is long time to winter.

First you must have a good amount of brood, that you gave a good winter cluster.
But it is 2-3 brood cycles to that out there?
If brood are in one box, you need only one box for winter. All summer bees will die before clustering.

 

[Jimy Dee]

Finman - really like the way you explained winter bees being 2 to 3 bee cycles away. A really excellent analysis. Well done. This is how I will be thinking going forward.

 

[BeeFarmer]

.
If brood is full of stores, from where you get bees for winter cluster?
You should have now a whole brood box free from food that queen can lay.
If you have full honey frames in brood box, extract them.

I don't think I really explained the brood box situation very well at all. I've got around 5 full brood frames of stores and then 6 frames of BIAS surrounded with the usual nice arch of honey above them. Am I right in assuming the best route would be to uncap some of this and hope that they move it into an empty super? I like the idea of trying double brood but I think that's something for next year.

 

[itma]

I don't think I really explained the brood box situation very well at all. I've got around 5 full brood frames of stores and then 6 frames of BIAS surrounded with the usual nice arch of honey above them. Am I right in assuming the best route would be to uncap some of this and hope that they move it into an empty super? I like the idea of trying double brood but I think that's something for next year.

As per one of o90o's suggestions above, if those brood-box frames are full of honey (not syrup from your feeding), then the best thing would be to extract some ASAP. The bees have plenty time yet to fill the brood box with winter stores.
As things stand, you are going to be cramping them soon (if not already).

 

[BeeFarmer]

If those brood-box frames are full of honey (not syrup from your feeding)

There is definately no syrup in there as I've not fed them since the start of the year. It looks like as soon as the weather improves a little I'll be getting the extractor back out, cue the music! I didn't want to remove them initally as the chaps at the association told us to never extract the frames in the brood box. Just out of interest and I know it's going to vary from area to area but at which point do you think it'd be the time to stop thinking about extracting? 2 - 3 weeks?

 

[Erichalfbee]

If my boxes are getting a little store bound by the middle of the month I will take one frame, extract to freeze it and put a frame of foundation in the middle of the brood. This gets drawn and laid up very quickly.

 

[Finman]

I've got around 5 full brood frames of stores and then 6 frames of BIAS surrounded with the usual nice arch of honey above them. .

6 brood frames is very small amount this time of year, and honey arch in them. It is not much more than a nuc and it is better now take off honey frames and extract them. But I believe that part of frames have much stored pollen.

If you have 12-15 frames of brood, that hive needs 2 brood for winter.

Try to get more brood. Big cluster does better in winter.

.

 

[BeeFarmer]

I've got plenty of spare foundation that I can frame up and give to them so once all the storms have passed I'll extract a few frames get a fully tally on the brood frames and put some foundation in for them to draw. Given the thunderstorms we've had in the past few hours I don't think I'll be opening up anything today! The CountryFile forecast a beekeepers friend

 

[Madge]

... I've got around 5 full brood frames of stores and then 6 frames of BIAS surrounded with the usual nice arch of honey above them. Am I right in assuming the best route would be to uncap some of this and hope that they move it into an empty super? I like the idea of trying double brood but I think that's something for next year.

... It looks like as soon as the weather improves a little I'll be getting the extractor back out ...

I've got plenty of spare foundation that I can frame up and give to them ...

As I understand you, it sounds as though all your brood frames have some brood in them (5 frames full of brood, and 6 with brood and stores) - so what do you want to extract?

Or do you mean you're going to uncap the honey in the brood frames and wait for the bees to move it up into a super and then extract? I don't know if that will happen. They'll probably just seal it up again.

Leave the honey in the brood box for the bees. It's theirs.

I think there's time for you to double up if you want to. I think divide the brood frames equally in strength between the two boxes, add a frame of foundation to each box. Fill the extra space with dummies. You can add more foundation frames later if necessary. Even if they do not use the extra foundation, it does not really matter. They'll cluster in the top box over winter where they'll be warm and cosy (particularly if you use insulating dummies), and the bottom box will probably become empty and stay that way until early spring. (Read Ian Craig's 'My beekeeping year' which you can download from the SBA website.)

I'm not saying that's the way to do it, but it's an option. I do think, however, that you should leave your extractor packed up.

 

[Rahere]

Could you be looking at the wrong thing? The current generation of workers won't make it to winter, what you need to watch is the size of the brood. It might even be that you could do well to tap the surplus workers into a super of empty frames overnight, remove it with them still in it in the wee small hours and euthanase them, leaving the brood box safe and crewed. The reason for this is you don't need a lot of redundant mouths noshing the winter reserves for the next month while bringing nothing in, depends on the state of your honey flow too. It's the effect of the early spring bringing the flows in early, leaving us with nothing coming in and a month or more before they really settle. As we can't be certain of the same next year, perhaps it's time to do artificially what comes naturally: look on it as an extension to what they do with the drones anyway. Perhaps that should be the trigger for when to do it, they bounce the drones, they get culled themselves too.

 

[REDWOOD]

Nowhere near winter here, HB has only just started big time and the heather has now only just opened

 

[BeeFarmer]

I do think, however, that you should leave your extractor packed up.

So many ideas and opinions!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Could you be looking at the wrong thing? The current generation of workers won't make it to winter, what you need to watch is the size of the brood. It might even be that you could do well to tap the surplus workers into a super of empty frames overnight, remove it with them still in it in the wee small hours and euthanase them, leaving the brood box safe and crewed.

Where on earth did you hear of all that total B*llox?

 

[oliver90owner]

He's got his eye on jsmills' thread? Lots of dead bees and loadsa money!

 

[Madge]

... The current generation of workers won't make it to winter, ... euthanase them ...

I can't believe I'm reading this. Codswallop.

 

[Finman]

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Well. It is good summer, but only problem in beekeeping is that hive is filled with honey.... Kill the foragers!!!!