Getting Bees into Supers

[BMH]

I have a bit of a dilemma on a number of my hives.

They are on double brood with a wire framed queen excluder in between the supers, with only foundation available (in the supers).

They keep on filling the double brood and then are not interested in making there way into the supers to draw the foundation. There is a good flow on and they just arent interested, to the extent that lots of them are making swarm preparations, instead of expanding into the supers.

Its really annoying me.

I have a few option available to me and wondered if anyone has experienced anything similar.

Im thinking one of the following:

1. Remove the excluder and put up with erratic brood

2. Condense brood down to 1 brood box and remove the second brood box, forcing them into the super

3. Split the brood boxes in a similar fashion to a demaree. Bleed the flyers to the brood box below to force them up into the supers.

4. Do nothing and let them swarm. grrrrrr.

Any tips or advice, warmly received.

 

[madasafish]

Get them to draw super foundation in brood box and move it - with bees - into super..

Only one super on to start.Drawn frames in centre of super.
2 frames should start them off.

 

[simonforeman]

I'm no expert in my first full season but I had 1 of my hives do this in the spring. I took a couple of drawn super frames 1/2 full from another hive in the same apiary put them in the middle of the super with foundation and it helped them move up.
Worked for me, worth a try.

 

[BMH]

Get them to draw super foundation in brood box and move it - with bees - into super..

Only one super on to start.Drawn frames in centre of super.
2 frames should start them off.

Ah see I was thinking I could put a super underneath the double brood and move it when they get going on it.

Where I can, the first super has two frame of drawn foundation in the centre but they still wont move up.

Great shout though. Ill remove any frames of stores within the brood box and replace with super frames, and then move them up, making sure not to get the queen at my next visit.

Should quell the swarming impulse at the same time.

 

[eltalia]

Get them to draw super foundation in brood box and move it - with bees - into super..

Only one super on to start.Drawn frames in centre of super.
2 frames should start them off.

Nope.
Way to go in potentially having drone comb in your supers.
The fix is simple, practised across an apiary... but truly
the question belongs in "Beginners" as it is basic beekeeping.

/folds hands/

Bill

 

[ShinySideUp]

A quick method that might be worth trying, although I haven't had to try it myself, is just to get the bees up into the supers by dribbling some sugar syrup down through from the top. You never know, they might just think "hey, there's room up here". Of course I might just be being anthropomorphic.

 

[BMH]

Nope.
Way to go in potentially having drone comb in your supers.
The fix is simple, practised across an apiary... but truly
the question belongs in "Beginners" as it is basic beekeeping.

/folds hands/

Bill

Thanks - really helpful.

Please elaborate further. Like I said, they are commencing swarm preparation even with 2/3 frames of drawn foundation above them.

Its happening to about 50% of my colonies.

 

[BMH]

A quick method that might be worth trying, although I haven't had to try it myself, is just to get the bees up into the supers by dribbling some sugar syrup down through from the top. You never know, they might just think "hey, there's room up here". Of course I might just be being anthropomorphic.

I think id prefer to have brood in my supers than sugar syrup, but thanks anyway.

 

[Ian123]

Just remove qx

 

[BMH]

Just remove qx

Yes - this is clearly the simplest option (option No. 1) but its annoying that I dont need to do that on most colonies and its just these ones that arent playing ball.

I could understand if there was no flow but its a real heavy flow and they are desperate for space. They just cant find it..

 

[Beefriendly]

Initial thoughts are double brood and ONE super!!!!......Despite them not drawing the frames they can be mighty cramped for space this time of year. I usually have a minimum of three supers on most double brood this time of year just to provide overnight parking space for all the bees.

Another thought...is the spacing on the queen excluders correct?
It won't be the first time a dodgy batch was sold.

 

[BMH]

Sorry if it wasnt clear. Double brood and 4 supers! All undrawn on these colonies barring a couple of frames.

I'll double check the spacing but there are a few rogue bees up there so pretty sure they can get through.

Once they get through they are firing but its just that first super that's causing the issue

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[Angry_Mob]

I do similar to Simon but instead I take a drawn super, swap 5 or 6 frames with the empty super and alternate them rather than placing all in the middle.

Extracted frames would be even better for the residual honey to encourage them up, got quite a few supers drawn doing that this year.

 

[BMH]

I do similar to Simon but instead I take a drawn super, swap 5 or 6 frames with the empty super and alternate them rather than placing all in the middle.

Extracted frames would be even better for the residual honey to encourage them up, got quite a few supers drawn doing that this year.

All of my combs are being used in other colonies and its working as would be expected

It's only occurring in the colonies where I'm severely limited by the number of drawn combs.

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[eltalia]

All of my combs are being used in other colonies and its working as would be expected

It's only occurring in the colonies where I'm severely limited by the number of drawn combs.

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Some clues so far(posted) in using drawn - extracted 0r n0t - yet n0ne quite
reaching the method for you, eh? I'm pretty sure I 've posted the method with
sketches here before today - so there is that avenue, and g00gle - as the
method is universal, well documented. Merely lost to this corner of the globe,
seemingly.
0r you could tell us how all those other colonies got to have drawn supers?
The new players reading along may well learn something.
I do note the honeybadger had to sacrifice the use of lollywater. - yet again.
Some just carn't do a thing around bees without that "spoonfull of sugar". Heh

/pops 2 of Fe tabs/

Bill

 

[Show me the honey]

I started my 3 out with no qx past 2 years 2 always worked to brood and a half with maybe one frame in the 3rd box having 1 frame of brood so this year I moved them to double brood with qx so for me I’d chose Option 2. One hive I’ve left to brood and half as I don’t think she is up it being the original she knocking on a bit. Only been in the game 3 years so more of a comment than advice!

 

[ShinySideUp]

I think id prefer to have brood in my supers than sugar syrup, but thanks anyway.

I don't mean for you to saturate the brood box and supers with sugar syrup, I was suggesting a few lines of sugar syrup would entice the bees upwards using maybe 50ml of syrup trickled down. Such a small amount is not going to affect your honey crop and from what you describe if you don't do something there won't be a honey crop anyway. It is just a suggestion.

 

[mbc]

Sorry if it wasnt clear. Double brood and 4 supers! All undrawn on these colonies barring a couple of frames.

I'll double check the spacing but there are a few rogue bees up there so pretty sure they can get through.

Once they get through they are firing but its just that first super that's causing the issue

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Reading through the thread I was tempted to post something constructive but the above is just bs willy waving, why have 4 supers of foundation on if they're not drawing the first?!!
Try extracting some of the deep frames and giving them back drawn spun out comb in the second brood box.

 

[Finman]

.
The colony is too small to occupy all those boxes. And the heat escapes from the nest upstairs.

With 50 hives you surely know, what is the case.

.

 

[MartinL]

When you say, "double brood" are you referring to the colony or the boxes?

Double brood ie;

• 20 fully drawn deep frames, all in use

• HM laying throughout 15-20 frames

or, two deep boxes with bees in there somewhere?

Is there nowhere for you to store the empty supers until they are required?