Get your super back now

[enrico]

Maybe my incident with the well used brood frame coloured my judgement but another thought has entered my mind . Supers tend not to attract wax moth whereas stored brood boxes most certainly do ?

I wish you would tell my wax moth that. Lost loads of supers a couple of years ago because I read on here that wax moth only eat the cacoons in brood boxes. Ok I thought, no need to worry about the supers then. That cost me a bit in New foundation! Sorry, don't believe a word of it!

 

[drex]

I routinely use Dipel on all my stored boxes. Occasionally the odd super will be missed ( usually by not being in the right place or in a stack) and am yet to see any wax moth in them. Might just be because there will only be a couple in the stack. However I use excluders so my supers will not have had any brood in them

 

[victor meldrew]

I really do hope you are correct - but I doubt it - I'm all ears

Wax moth is attracted to brood frames. I live in the north of England . None brooded comb is attractive to the large wax moth which I’ve never seen examples of in my apiary nor fellow local beekeepers .
there are many pictures of wax moths tunnelling under the cappings‘ if wax was their only nourishment, what’s the rationale ?
I am also willing to learn , a trait I intend retaining.

 

[pargyle]

I only once made the mistake of leaving brood frames unprotected in a Paynes poly nuc over winter - come spring the mess was unbelievable - not only were the frames and comb totally destroyed the grubs were burrowed into the polystyrene - some holes so deep they were through to the outside. Throw away job ... costly mistake. I salvaged the roof and the polycarbonate crown board the rest was skip fodder. Disgusting state - I hate the fat greater wax moth grubs although I understand that fried wax moth grub is a delicacy - tastes like chicken !

We have both greater and lesser wax moth down here - I treat stored brood frames with Dipel (have done now for three winters I think) and I've not had a problem - prior to that I used Certan which also worked. The Dipel I'm using (by all accounts) is now out of date - it says it has a three year shelf life if stored away from extreme temperatures, in the original container and devoid of moisture. On the basis that I eat Yoghurts that are sometimes weeks out of date (we always get left with blackcurrant ones that nobody will eat apart from me !) I'm going to continue using it but keep an eye on my stored brood frames.

I store my supers wet and I've never had a problem in any supers with wax moth - even though some of them will undoubtedly had brood in them.

 

[Amari]

I routinely use Dipel on all my stored boxes. Occasionally the odd super will be missed ( usually by not being in the right place or in a stack) and am yet to see any wax moth in them. Might just be because there will only be a couple in the stack. However I use excluders so my supers will not have had any brood in them

We have both greater and lesser wax moth down here - I treat stored brood frames with Dipel (have done now for three winters I think) and I've not had a problem - prior to that I used Certan which also worked. The Dipel I'm using (by all accounts) is now out of date - it says it has a three year shelf life if stored away from extreme temperatures, in the original container and devoid of moisture. On the basis that I eat Yoghurts that are sometimes weeks out of date (we always get left with blackcurrant ones that nobody will eat apart from me !) I'm going to continue using it but keep an eye on my stored brood frames.

I store my supers wet and I've never had a problem in any supers with wax moth - even though some of them will undoubtedly had brood in them.

I've never used Dipel: is now the time to apply it? All my boxes are stored outside with no protection.

 

[pargyle]

I've never used Dipel: is now the time to apply it? All my boxes are stored outside with no protection.

I don't think it really matters when you apply it as the bacillus remains active for a long time - I routinely treat my stored frames around the end of summer - I'm a bit late this year as I was away for 10 days and I'm playing catch up. I've seen live wax moths in my stored hives (stored in the open but in the lee of my workshop) but since I've been using Dipel I've never seen any signs of grubs or tracks in the comb. The moths may lay eggs but the Dipel stops any grubs developing. It's not cheap and you have to buy a big tub which, with only a few hives, will last years. Having said that - at the last price of Certan if I get 4 or 5 years out of a tub of Dipel I will still be in pocket as the Certan never lasted more than one season.

https://www.agrigem.co.uk/dipel-df-500g

 

[Boston Bees]

I wish you would tell my wax moth that. Lost loads of supers a couple of years ago because I read on here that wax moth only eat the cacoons in brood boxes. Ok I thought, no need to worry about the supers then. That cost me a bit in New foundation! Sorry, don't believe a word of it!

You are right of course.

Do wax moth have a strong preference for frames which have had brood in? Yes, certainly.
But might they use stores-only frames in the absence of an alternative. Yes, certainly.

 

[victor meldrew]

I only once made the mistake of leaving brood frames unprotected in a Paynes poly nuc over winter - come spring the mess was unbelievable - not only were the frames and comb totally destroyed the grubs were burrowed into the polystyrene - some holes so deep they were through to the outside. Throw away job ... costly mistake. I salvaged the roof and the polycarbonate crown board the rest was skip fodder. Disgusting state - I hate the fat greater wax moth grubs although I understand that fried wax moth grub is a delicacy - tastes like chicken !

We have both greater and lesser wax moth down here - I treat stored brood frames with Dipel (have done now for three winters I think) and I've not had a problem - prior to that I used Certan which also worked. The Dipel I'm using (by all accounts) is now out of date - it says it has a three year shelf life if stored away from extreme temperatures, in the original container and devoid of moisture. On the basis that I eat Yoghurts that are sometimes weeks out of date (we always get left with blackcurrant ones that nobody will eat apart from me !) I'm going to continue using it but keep an eye on my stored brood frames.

I store my supers wet and I've never had a problem in any supers with wax moth - even though some of them will undoubtedly had brood in them.

A friend of mine stores his supers wet ! They ferment ( He likes the fruit salad smell ). He’s bees show neither any reluctance to use them nor appear to suffer any ill effects .

 

[pargyle]

A friend of mine stores his supers wet ! They ferment ( He likes the fruit salad smell ). He’s bees show neither any reluctance to use them nor appear to suffer any ill effects .

My 'new' extractor spins the frames really dry ... the old manual one wasn't so good and I used to notice the slight 'fermentation' smell from the supers when re-using them the following year but the bees seem to clean them up and there's no lasting smell from them. The radial electric one is much better and I didn't notice any signs of a fermentation odour this year when I went to put the supers on.

 

[victor meldrew]

My 'new' extractor spins the frames really dry ... the old manual one wasn't so good and I used to notice the slight 'fermentation' smell from the supers when re-using them the following year but the bees seem to clean them up and there's no lasting smell from them. The radial electric one is much better and I didn't notice any signs of a fermentation odour this year when I went to put the supers on.

I bought a new extractor last year , it has its drawbacks but strongly built . I’ve never used a manual one .
the first 34 years I used a home brewed electric driven radial one but the control and smooth take up on the present one is a dream . You can Rev it up without shattering comb .

 

[Amari]

I don't think it really matters when you apply it as the bacillus remains active for a long time - I routinely treat my stored frames around the end of summer - I'm a bit late this year as I was away for 10 days and I'm playing catch up. I've seen live wax moths in my stored hives (stored in the open but in the lee of my workshop) but since I've been using Dipel I've never seen any signs of grubs or tracks in the comb. The moths may lay eggs but the Dipel stops any grubs developing. It's not cheap and you have to buy a big tub which, with only a few hives, will last years. Having said that - at the last price of Certan if I get 4 or 5 years out of a tub of Dipel I will still be in pocket as the Certan never lasted more than one season.

https://www.agrigem.co.uk/dipel-df-500g

Yes, a tad expensive - but not if it lasts > a year and treats several stacks. So far I've relied on burning a sulphur strip.
https://www.thorne.co.uk/index.php?route=product/search&filter_name=sulphur+strips
https://www.thorne.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&filter_name=sulphur &product_id=378

 

[pargyle]

Yes, a tad expensive - but not if it lasts > a year and treats several stacks. So far I've relied on burning a sulphur strip.
https://www.thorne.co.uk/index.php?route=product/search&filter_name=sulphur+strips
https://www.thorne.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&filter_name=sulphur &product_id=378

It's gone up a lot in the last few years ... mine was £37 for 500g from a supplier in Italy three years ago ... it's not easy to find in the UK now and around £60 a tub is the going rate. I can't find an EU supplier that is prepared to ship to the UK at present.

 

[sean-a]

I don't think it really matters when you apply it as the bacillus remains active for a long time - I routinely treat my stored frames around the end of summer - I'm a bit late this year as I was away for 10 days and I'm playing catch up. I've seen live wax moths in my stored hives (stored in the open but in the lee of my workshop) but since I've been using Dipel I've never seen any signs of grubs or tracks in the comb. The moths may lay eggs but the Dipel stops any grubs developing. It's not cheap and you have to buy a big tub which, with only a few hives, will last years. Having said that - at the last price of Certan if I get 4 or 5 years out of a tub of Dipel I will still be in pocket as the Certan never lasted more than one season.

https://www.agrigem.co.uk/dipel-df-500g

I bought some Dipel from Italy on Ebay.... a couple of years ago, it was MUCH cheaper....worth shopping around.
Although Brexit has stopped a lot of companies shipping to the UK

 

[sean-a]

Just seen Pargyle's last post....exactly that !!

 

[user 819]

This is an alternative to Dipel and at a cheaper price.
Safe for humans and pollinators, read up on the product before purchasing if concerned.
Xentari Raupenfrei 25g Bacillus thuringiensis ss Aizawai | eBay

Mix 1g per 1 litre water.

 

[pargyle]

Just seen Pargyle's last post....exactly that !!

I don't know what the legality of it is but it would be good if someone was able to buy Dipel in bulk and then repackage in a quantity more commensurate to a hobby beekeeper.

With a tub of 500gm ... at 3gms /10 litre you are looking at a lot of doses. I reckon 10 litres in a pump action mist sprayer will do at least fifty 14 x 12 frames so the average hobbyist is only going to need a maximum of say 25 gms for a 2 year supply. You would be looking at a retail price of around £5 with repackaging costs and a margin ... very reasonable for the frame protection it offers.

 

[holmbee]

This is an alternative to Dipel and at a cheaper price.
Safe for humans and pollinators, read up on the product before purchasing if concerned.
Xentari Raupenfrei 25g Bacillus thuringiensis ss Aizawai | eBay

Mix 1g per 1 litre water.

You can buy just two grams if you wish to try it. Will make 2 litres probably enough for a beekeeper wth about five hives, depending on the number of supers - of course.