Genetic mutation

[B+.]

I'm just wondering how prevalent this is:
I collected a swarm last year and noticed drones with white eyes. Has anyone else encountered this?

I know the photos are terrible....sorry about that

 

[oliver90owner]

The term is usually adopted as headlining for less than optimal genetic changes but mutations are taking place all the time with most not noticed. Survival of the fittest?

 

[Thymallus]

Yes it is an eye pigment mutation, pretty rare, but well known. Sometimes it can be a single eye that is white. Several other eye colour mutants also exist,
Alas, although your white eyed drones will live a long and happy life in the hive they are blind.

 

[For want of a better word]

I have never seen blind white eyed Drones... wonder if this is the effect of yet another virus that has flown in from afar?

Had colonies of bees with almost 100% green/yellow eyed drones... definitely not blind.
Have also seen very red eyed drones in Pulbourgh area in Sussex a few years back, but the drones were also very lacking in pigmentation, very pale yellow bees ( ( claimed to be nice Buckfast bees... seemed to do well on the banks of the Arun!))

Bet DNA would be interesting... but purely academec... methinks!

Yeghes da

 

[B+.]

Yes it is an eye pigment mutation, pretty rare, but well known. Sometimes it can be a single eye that is white. Several other eye colour mutants also exist,
Alas, although your white eyed drones will live a long and happy life in the hive they are blind.

I'm more interested in how widely spread it is. Has anyone seen it in real life?

Tom Glenn has a range of mutation photos here http://www.glenn-apiaries.com/genetics.html

 

[B+.]

in the hive they are blind.

Isn't it interesting that they were in a swarm though?

 

[B+.]

mutations are taking place all the time with most not noticed. Survival of the fittest?

Absoluely!
We have a tendency to think in terms of rules/cause and effect, but, gametes mutate all of the time

 

[rolande]

I'm more interested in how widely spread it is. Has anyone seen it in real life?

Yes. In one colony which, for background, was headed by a daughter out of one of the 'buckfast x cecropia' queens.

 

[Thymallus]

I have never seen blind white eyed Drones... wonder if this is the effect of yet another virus that has flown in from afar?

I managed to locate a reasonable essay on the subject that should be understandable to all....yes google. It's unlikely to be a virus; as as far as I'm aware non have been described with this characteristic phenotype, but genetic mutations have.
The link is here.
Also, if anyone is interested Glen apiaries have some photos of these mutations.

 

[Thymallus]

Isn't it interesting that they were in a swarm though?

The swarm was captured last year,how extensive is the eye whiteness? From your pictures I'd saw it isn't 100% coverage of the eyes. They may have sufficient sight to fly within the swarm. A sort of impaired vision drone.

 

[B+.]

The swarm was captured last year, the blind drones are only being seen this year. There probably weren't any seen last year as they got left behind.

No. The photo was taken last year.
I have wondered about it for a long time

 

[Thymallus]

No. The photo was taken last year.
I have wondered about it for a long time

You managed to quote me on an accidental premature reply oooerr mssuss. The albino eye coverage from your photos doesn't seem to be 100%. So they may retain sufficient vision to have flown with a swarm and even fly around a bit. Lots of mutations can give this patchy phenotype, but interestingly, usually in a heterozygous background.

 

[B+.]

You managed to quote me on an accidental premature reply oooerr mssuss. The albino eye coverage from your photos doesn't seem to be 100%. So they may retain sufficient vision to have flown with a swarm and even fly around a bit. Lots of mutations can give this patchy phenotype, but interestingly, usually in a heterozygous background.

Sorry...I am always doing that too.
Yes. It is possible that the drone(s) had impaired vision although the article you cited (and other sources I have read) suggests that they are blind. I wonder if they are able to maintain contact with the swarm via other means?
My understanding is that it is a caused by a gene, and not a virus. If it is a recessive gene, it would be expressed in all drones from that queen (excluding variation) because there is no suppression of the recessive with a dominant gene from a drone. Drones express all of their characteristics because they only have 16 chromosomes.

 

[B+.]

Yes. In one colony which, for background, was headed by a daughter out of one of the 'buckfast x cecropia' queens.

Did you see it in either of these colonies before the cross? It would be interesting to know where it came from.
I don't remember all of the details about this swarm, but, I suspected that it may have been a Buckfast because it filled 2 Langstroth deeps and was very docile. I know, I am describing heterosis which isn't limited to Buckfasts. Thats just my suspicion.

It sounds as though it is uncommon though.

 

[rolande]

Did you see it in either of these colonies before the cross? It would be interesting to know where it came from.

No, there was no sign in any of the bxc colonies or the reasonably stable local population previously. Not seen it since that colony's queen was superceded either.

 

[B+.]

Not seen it since that colony's queen was superceded either.

This is the only time I have come across it too.

 

[B+.]

Lots of mutations can give this patchy phenotype, but interestingly, usually in a heterozygous background.

I just reread your post. Are you suggesting it is a dominant/co-dominant condition? I thought it was recessive.
Do you have any sources I could read on that?

 

[alanf]

... My understanding is that it is a caused by a gene, and not a virus. If it is a recessive gene, it would be expressed in all drones from that queen (excluding variation) because there is no suppression of the recessive with a dominant gene from a drone. Drones express all of their characteristics because they only have 16 chromosomes.

Not quite. Queens are diploid, two copies of each gene. One of each is contributed to each drone. So a dominant/recessive pair of genes in the queen will produce recessive in half the drones they lay. That assumes it's a single gene responsible for a specific trait, it could be dependent on other genes too and the observation of various colours, yellow or green and red as well as white for instance suggests the eye pigmentation is more complex

There was a post some time ago by ITLD. As a large scale beekeeper he sees these mutations every year. And I do recall bee inspectors saying they see them. So unusual, but in a sample of thousands the probability of seeing one or two drones with odd eye colour is quite high. If the recessive gene is no disadvantage to the queen it could persist locally in queen lines for many generations even if the drones that carry the mutation don't get to mate.

 

[Michael Palmer]

I see white eyed drones every summer, but I have very many colonies in my apiaries. I've seen the green eyes a few times but never the red.

 

[B+.]

I see white eyed drones every summer, but I have very many colonies in my apiaries. I've seen the green eyes a few times but never the red.

Can you confirm that the white-eyed drones are blind Michael? I would have thought this would prevent them from finding the virgin queen to mate with and would fizzle out of any population it was found in. If you see it every year, does this mean you have a lot of it or that they can still mate?