Full hive, but no eggs yet. Can they still swarm?

[BernardBlack]

A hypothetical question...

I have a brood box and a super on one hive.

BB and super are fairly full, but only a few sealed brood left in BB (as the new Queen has just emerged and not laying yet). The old brood areas are being filled up with stores.

Anyway... I was just wondering what would happen if the colony didn’t have much room left in the hive? Surely as there’s no eggs being laid, they obviously can’t create any QC’s, and therefore can’t swarm?

If that’s correct, what do they do in the meantime? Stop foraging?

 

[enrico]

A hypothetical question...

I have a brood box and a super on one hive.

BB and super are fairly full, but only a few sealed brood left in BB (as the new Queen has just emerged and not laying yet). The old brood areas are being filled up with stores.

Anyway... I was just wondering what would happen if the colony didn’t have much room left in the hive? Surely as there’s no eggs being laid, they obviously can’t create any QC’s, and therefore can’t swarm?

If that’s correct, what do they do in the meantime? Stop foraging?

Die through lack of bees. In the wild they would not get into that position. You are restricting them. They may poodle on for a while but eventually there will no be enough bees to cover the brood. That's my view anyway

 

[BernardBlack]

Die through lack of bees. In the wild they would not get into that position. You are restricting them. They may poodle on for a while but eventually there will no be enough bees to cover the brood. That's my view anyway

I will add a super in a day or two. But since there was no eggs today, realistically there wouldn’t be a sealed QC for another 8 days at least.

So, I just wondered what would happen in the short term if they fill both boxes.

 

[ericbeaumont]

as there’s no eggs being laid, they obviously can’t create any QC’s, and therefore can’t swarm?

No, they cannot swarm. .

what do they do in the meantime? Stop foraging?

No. Bees do not have an off-switch and would continue foraging.

what would happen in the short term if they fill both boxes.

Fill gaps between side bars and wall, top bars & bottom bars above, go into the roof if they can, perhaps build comb outside, under the floor.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I have a colony where the queen has largely stopped laying. Just odd worker brood in places. The bees haven't tried replacing her so I have. The whole 14x12 is filled with pollen with honey on top of it.

 

[Blunt Spike]

I have a colony where the queen has largely stopped laying. Just odd worker brood in places. The bees haven't tried replacing her so I have. The whole 14x12 is filled with pollen with honey on top of it.

Whats your plan with the frames of stores? Switch them and store for now, and use as winter feed, thus creating space for the new queen to start laying?

 

[enrico]

I will add a super in a day or two. But since there was no eggs today, realistically there wouldn’t be a sealed QC for another 8 days at least.

So, I just wondered what would happen in the short term if they fill both boxes.

So is there a virgin queen in there or not?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I will add a super in a day or two

do it now! where on earth do you think the new queen is going to lay if she does mate?
They may not 'swarm' in the usual sense, but the can still leave headed by a virgin, either leaving a forlorn gaggle of doomed workers - or a hive jam packed full of stores but bereft of bees.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Whats your plan with the frames of stores? Switch them and store for now, and use as winter feed, thus creating space for the new queen to start laying?

I’ve united them with another colony. The brood box is over two supers while the little bit of brood emerges then I’ll take it away. I don’t have much call for pollen frames but a couple might go in the freezer. I’ll wash out the useable frames ( I know.. what a waste!) and bin the rest

 

[Ian123]

I have a colony where the queen has largely stopped laying. Just odd worker brood in places. The bees haven't tried replacing her so I have. The whole 14x12 is filled with pollen with honey on top of it.

Certainly with some of mine they’ll fill up the entire bottom box with pollen, and brood can become patchy in the box above with nectar dumped in cells.

 

[ericbeaumont]

new Queen has just emerged and not laying yet

realistically there wouldn’t be a sealed QC for another 8 days

Your chronology needs a polish: a new queen is loaded with pheromone and the bees won't even dream of swarming the day she lays her first egg, no matter the lack of laying space.

I've been in BBs recently to resolve splits, and found far too much honey & pollen and a postage stamp of eggs & larvae. Took out 4-5 surplus, extracted and put combs straight back.

 

[Curly green finger's]

The bees are being a bit pollen crazy this season I’ve had to take out quite a few pollen frames from double brood which will get used this week making nucs .

 

[ericbeaumont]

take out quite a few

This work (though keep the colony balanced) is essential to keep the brood nest open, and is a good reason to use at least one BB as a super.

By the end of the main flow (or perhaps OSR) it can be extracted and give valuable ammo for frame management, esp. next season.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Certainly with some of mine they’ll fill up the entire bottom box with pollen, and brood can become patchy in the box above with nectar dumped in cells.

I keep mine in one box. I hate double brood. There is always so much carnage when I separate the boxes.
A couple have had to be given a shallow on top of the 14x12 …..grrrrrrrr

 

[ericbeaumont]

so much carnage when I separate the boxes.

Too heavy? Understandable.

Have an empty BB next to you and decant the top box frame by frame into it. Reverse the job when you've checked the bottom box.

 

[BernardBlack]

So is there a virgin queen in there or not?

Yep.

 

[BernardBlack]

do it now! where on earth do you think the new queen is going to lay if she does mate?
They may not 'swarm' in the usual sense, but the can still leave headed by a virgin, either leaving a forlorn gaggle of doomed workers - or a hive jam packed full of stores but bereft of bees.

Hmm good point.

Just got new frames today. Better get hammering...