Frames without foundation

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Thanks, very useful, going to try it

Don't suppose you know what thickness it is?

Sorry. No. Just thick. I don’t suppose it matters much. How much weight is going to be on one line?

I suppose 20 lb test bog standard sea fishing line would suffice but 40lb probably much stiffer but is it as workable?

 

[pargyle]

Sorry. No. Just thick. I don’t suppose it matters much. How much weight is going to be on one line?

I use stainless wire but I don't think it makes a lot of difference what you use ... it just provides a little support for the comb when it's very fresh but to be perfectly honest ..I think it's more just about reassurance to the beekeeper.

I have some foundationless brood frames that have not been wired (ran out of wire and needed a few frames) and as long as you are careful handling them (keep the frames vertical - as you should anyway if you have been taught properly) there is little chance of the comb breaking off. Once it is joined to the side bars it is as safe as foundation. I don't extract honey, as a general rule, from brood frames so there's no real stress on the comb. I've rarely had a problem with super frames which I don't reinforce.

 

[Boston Bees]

I have some foundationless brood frames that have not been wired (ran out of wire and needed a few frames) and as long as you are careful handling them (keep the frames vertical - as you should anyway if you have been taught properly) there is little chance of the comb breaking off. Once it is joined to the side bars it is as safe as foundation.

From repeated bitter experience I can confirm that this is not true when a frame is full or even part-full of nectar/honey. Keeping frames vertical is always the aim, of course, but it's easier to stick to that rule on an internet forum than in the reality of a busy inspection round. Hence my interest in fishing line/wire for the coming season.

 

[pargyle]

From repeated bitter experience I can confirm that this is not true when a frame is full or even part-full of nectar/honey. Keeping frames vertical is always the aim, of course, but it's easier to stick to that rule on an internet forum than in the reality of a busy inspection round. Hence my interest in fishing line/wire for the coming season.

I've been foundationless since I started beekeeping - I can only remember one occasion when a part filled part completed frame started to be affected by gravity ... it only got to about 45 degrees before I restored the frame to the vertical and it simply hinged back into place ... perhaps it's more about frame handling technique. A month or two with a top bar hive will teach you how to handle fresh comb - I would thoroughly recommend it although I am not a great fan of TBH these days to be honest but they are a learning experience alongside more traditional framed hives.

 

[Finman]

I use stainless wire but I don't think it makes a lot of difference what you use ... it just provides a little support

When you take a strong stainless wire, it does not soak into wood like a thin wire . No eylets.

And after purification in lye water strong wires can be used again. Just tightening.

 

[Swn58]

Foundationless combs is very ecpencive hobby.

One langstroth box has 2 kg wax. Bees need 15 kg honey to make such amount wax. 6 boxes combs means 45 kg honey. And the value is....

I am looking into producing high quality comb. It is worth a lot more than honey, so would not mind losing a few honey productive hives. Using foundation-less frames will guarantee that the wax produced is the best possible quality from the start?

 

[Erichalfbee]

I’ve never had a problem with unwired ff super frames. The ones I couldn’t use for cut comb spin perfectly ok if you are careful the first season. In subsequent years they are as robust as wired ones

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I am looking into producing high quality comb. It is worth a lot more than honey

Explain
You can't just sell the stuff - that's very bad biosecurity practice, so unless you mean selling it as cut comb honey, the value is just to yourself.

 

[Finman]

I am looking into producing high quality comb. It is worth a lot more than honey, so would not mind losing a few honey productive hives. Using foundation-less frames will guarantee that the wax produced is the best possible quality from the start?

That needs imagination...

.

 

[Arfermo]

Yes it certainly is around here
I’ve given lots away.

Why? You are ruining JBMs market. Crush, filter and jar it.

 

[Erichalfbee]

It’s heartbreaking to crush the comb.
I don’t usually make much.
2018 I had no choice

 

[Boston Bees]

Sorry. No. Just thick. I don’t suppose it matters much. How much weight is going to be on one line?

One more question, sorry. Is there a simple way to describe the "tie off" bit at the end? Struggling to do it while retaining enough tension. No worries if not

 

[Erichalfbee]

One more question, sorry. Is there a simple way to describe the "tie off" bit at the end? Struggling to do it while retaining enough tension. No worries if not

If the knot slips through the hole you’ve made is too big
View attachment trim.C02BD666-3C77-4BBC-AEB2-2F66A76838DA.MOV

 

[Boston Bees]

If the knot slips through the hole you’ve made is too big

Ahh, that's very useful thanks

 

[Amaranth]

Thank you EricHB for that footage. That’s great that you’d go to the trouble of sharing. Apart from my frames there are various situations where I can use that neat little trick to good effect. Much appreciated.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Thank you EricHB for that footage. That’s great that you’d go to the trouble of sharing. Apart from my frames there are various situations where I can use that neat little trick to good effect. Much appreciated.

You're very welcome. It's what this community is all about

 

[Boston Bees]

Got my first home-made fishing-line-foundationless frame drawn using Dani's recommended method. A beautiful frame of drone comb. The fishing line appears to be intact within the comb, which is a relief.

Interestingly, a frame of (worker) foundation I gave the hive at the same time has been completely ignored. I guess either a) they only want to make drone comb this week or b) they really don't like foundation at all. Bit of both I guess.

I have taken the foundation out and given them another frame of foundationless!

 

[Erichalfbee]

Got my first home-made fishing-line-foundationless frame drawn using Dani's recommended method. A beautiful frame of drone comb. The fishing line appears to be intact within the comb, which is a relief.

Interestingly, a frame of (worker) foundation I gave the hive at the same time has been completely ignored. I guess either a) they only want to make drone comb this week or b) they really don't like foundation at all. Bit of both I guess.

I have taken the foundation out and given them another frame of foundationless!

Picture please next time you are in.

 

[user 20297]

I've now got loads of foundationless frames up and running. they are brilliant and the bees seem to thrive on them. As they have designed them to their own specification, they've made sure to leave a beespace all around the side and bottom-bars; foundation generally allows the comb to be fully attached. I've got them wired securely, so that's not a problem, but I've realised that this is a plot to allow the queen more ways to avoid detection.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

As they have designed them to their own specification, they've made sure to leave a beespace all around the side and bottom-bars; foundation generally allows the comb to be fully attached

doesn't always work like that, I find the majority of my brood frames end up with the bees nibbling away the foundation from the bottom bars and much of the sidebars, in fact, today I found one frame with the wax nibbled away all the way around - even from the top bar, it was just held within the frame by the wires and a little bit of foundation at the sides