frames without foundation?

[DomB]

Hi all,

Can I ask if there's a recommended way of putting empty frames into a super without using foundation? I did it last year but I ended up with about 40% of the comb going across the frames which made for a difficult extraction!

Thanks very much!

 

[Howsoonisnow]

Put the empty frame in between 2 frames that are already sealed.

 

[Dishmop]

Did you put a starter strip of foundation in the frame?

 

[DomB]

Thanks. I wanted to put all the frames in empty. I have some foundation but it's a bit old and broken up.

Starter-strip, great, So I could use a bit of foundation just to point them in the right direction as it were?

 

[Howsoonisnow]

If you haven't any drawn comb, you can try alternating with foundation.

Started strips do help.

 

[Dishmop]

Starter-strip, great, So I could use a bit of foundation just to point them in the right direction as it were?

More like keep them in line and do as they're told.

I have toyed with the idea of using a narrow strip of mesh flooring instead of wax foundation as its only really there as something to get a grip on.

 

[DomB]

Thanks - I guess I just try and put the starter strips along the top of the frame going like an inch down?

 

[viridens]

Yes. a continuous strip is best, but just a 2" center section often works. 1" is generous. As long as it is below the bar it will do.

 

[BILL.HEARD]

Some commercial people cut the combs out at harvest time but leave a half inch strip to give them a start for the following year.

 

[viridens]

BTW, I see you are asking about super frames. If you plan to use an extractor, wire your frames first.

 

[For want of a better word]

A question of orientation?

Depends upon the orientation of the sun to the hive when the sun is at its highest in the sky (Zenith?) and the orientation of the hive entrance to this, and if the frames have been fitted the warm or cold way. The zeneth is not at 12 noon GMT (UTC?? for those who do not like GMT)..except on mid summers day, and then the time is irrellivent as the latitude and longditude of your location also have to be factored in!
Also local anomalies as to the magnetic variation and ley lines, minor and major aquafers, wind direction and even the beekeepers natural aura need to be taken into consideration.
All this is very well for AMM bees that have evolved with the local environmental conditions, but for bees that have been brought into the country from Hawaii, New Zealand and even Austria and Greece,I would have no idea... but probably orientation may have a genetic memory!

This was a top topic of conversation in my Grandfathers day, when most beekeepers were still using skeps and fought shy of modern contraptions like National hives and their ilk that used un~natural foundation in fixed frames, just to make it easy for the beekeeper to exploit the humble honey bee for its golden stores!

From my own very limited experience of beekeeping, when I have foolishly left a space at the end of the brood box, or put in a topbar with frame but no foundation.... hive and frame orientation seem to be a major factor!

I would purchase some foundation as this is what frames were designed for.. or build a Top Bar hive from an old oil drum / empty beer cask or whatever the fad is for these days!

 

[oliver90owner]

The zeneth is not at 12 noon GMT (UTC?? for those who do not like GMT)..except on mid summers day, and then the time is irrellivent as the latitude and longditude of your location also have to be factored in!

Sorry, but a load of tosh!

 

[For want of a better word]

The zeneth is not at 12 noon GMT (UTC?? for those who do not like GMT)..except on mid summers day, and then the time is irrellivent as the latitude and longditude of your location also have to be factored in!

Sorry, but a load of tosh!

Probably that was the bit I missed in the RYA Yachtmasters Ocean Navigators course...

no surprise then we got lost off the Azores making for the Cape Verdes on our trip around the World


Fortunately ( or in Tractormans opinion unfortunately) a Nimrod saw us and

dropped in the spare AAA batteries for the GPS !!!!!!!!

​

 

[For want of a better word]

Sorry OP...
another sensible thread has been Tractored!!!!

 

[oliver90owner]

Sorry OP...
another sensible thread has been Tractored!!!!

Don't blame me. It was your drivel about the Sun not being at it's zenith at midday!

I would like to know how we know it is middle of the day, if it is when the Sun is not at it's apparent highest point in the sky!

I write 'apparent' because most (or at least some) of us know the Sun does not move across the sky at any time. It neither comes up (rises) in the East nor does it go down (sets in the West).

Bees in the natural environment should be really naffed off it the woodpecker did not make the hole in the tree trunk at the right orientation for them! On that subject - do woodpeckers generally make nesting holes, in trees, on the south side?

 

[Dishmop]

no surprise then we got lost off the Azores making for the Cape Verdes on our trip around the World

Should have used a hive of bees and not a compass.

 

[drstitson]

The sun is at the highest point (and also due south) at the following time:

noon + (correction to sundial) + (correction for longitude) + (correction for daylight time)

 

[DomB]

Fantastic, thanks very much everyone. Love the idea of the couple of inches in the middle there and thinking about it as I cut & extract ready for next year.

Cheers all

D

 

[For want of a better word]

The sun is at the highest point (and also due south) at the following time:

noon + (correction to sundial) + (correction for longitude) + (correction for daylight time)

Is that correct Tractorman or does GMT, BST, Gregorian callender have to be also factored in?? over to the expert!!

Tried to use the time correction bevel on my Rolex watch as knew apparent position by dead rekoning... at this moment I realised I had been sold a fake!

On the OP.. if my reasoning is so far out ... why do bees build at right angles to the comb sometimes and parallel to the top bars?

 

[Mike a]

why do bees build at right angles to the comb sometimes and parallel to the top bars?

I read a very interesting article on this subject a year or two ago. Of course its purely one persons thoughts and not proven. If I can find it again tonight I'll link it.