Frames too short!!!

[Anduril]

Ok, how about I leave the small frames as they are for this year, and give the bees chance to grow and build on the bigger frames

You need to try and work your national frames to the end of the brood box, whichever method you use, but cable tying them to lang frames gives you better options and better bee space towards the frame lugs.

 

[Ben32]

Yes I was going to take them out from the ends as that's were their honey is right? Therefore I won't be interfering with the eggs an that, right?
Yes I will tie to my frames and work them out to the ends of the brood box and replace them over the next 2 years, thank you for your help

 

[Tremyfro]

When I put my national frames full of brood into the Flow hive brood box(which is a langstroth)... I used some thin battens. I cut them to fit the langstroth and cable tied the national frames to them. They fit but the bees do build extra comb at the sides. I then used a second brood box...the bees moved up with the queen and I removed the bottom box...I gave the national brood frames to another colony.
However...what I think is the problem with your set up is the floor of the Flowhive. I was using a solid floor ...from a wooden langstroth hive...which had about 1/2 to 3/4 inch depth to it which would allow the extra depth caused by using the battens. You don't have this with the Flow hive floor.
I would solve this by making a shallow eke( which would lift the brood box a bit and allow an extra depth) put it under the brood box above the floor. It would be easy to make with some battens. Later, when your bees have moved onto langstroth frames...you could remove the shallow eke.
Hope that helps.

 

[Ben32]

Yes this is a good way to get around it, what do you mean when you say they build extra comb at sides? Is that from the side of the small frame to the side of the Lang frame it's tied to?

 

[Poly Hive]

A gentle heads up that You Tube whilst very good in some ways can be very misleading as so many vids are NOT relevant to the UK and as you are finding out the hard way can be confusing.

Good luck

PH

 

[Anduril]

Yes this is a good way to get around it, what do you mean when you say they build extra comb at sides? Is that from the side of the small frame to the side of the Lang frame it's tied to?

Yes they would. But Tremyfro has used a batten not a lang frame. In essence it is like a top bar hive and the bees could draw comb and attach the frame to the wall of the hive. If you attach it to a lang frame with the side bars, the side bars give a bee space between the frame and the wall of the hive. It is all about different ways we overcome a problem. Please join an association near you who could offer you a mentor, there is a wealth of information on this forum and also join the flow hive forum.

 

[Tremyfro]

Using a langstroth frame would certainly stop the extra comb being built. Yes...the extra comb is built down from the sides. Sometimes they tie it altogether...can be a nuisance to sort out. I didn't have any spare langstroth frames at the time...but you could use them. If your brood box isn't deep enough...just use an eke to raise it a bit. An eke is always useful as you can also use it on top of the brood box to create a space for feeding fondant.

 

[Ben32]

How much room between the frames and the base do I need?

 

[pargyle]

Yes this is a good way to get around it, what do you mean when you say they build extra comb at sides? Is that from the side of the small frame to the side of the Lang frame it's tied to?

How much room between the frames and the base do I need?

Yes ... You need to read up on bee space. Give them space inside the hive of less than about 6.5mm and they will glue it up with propolis... give them a space of more than that and they will build comb in it. Bee space is the amount of room that a bee needs to comfortable pass through.

It's why frames and hive boxes have to match in dimensions as otherwise the bees will build free comb wherever they have sufficient room which makes life difficult when you come to inspect them.

You are going to find it a steep learning curve .. I would recommend that you buy a copy of the Haynes Manual of Beekeeping ... it's a step by step guide through the beekeeping year with lots of information presented in a very readable format - all stuff you need to know. in fact, you really needed to know before you got your bees ...

Time to set aside Youtube and do some proper research or you will be running behind the bees rather than planning what to do next. Sorry if this sounds a bit harsh, it's not intended to be ... but you cannot imagine how many erstwhile beekeepers give up after the first year - generally because they struggle with the demands of keeping bees without enough knowledge to know what is happening and what has to be done.

The Flow Hive marketing has led a lot of people into keeping bees because it looks so simple, chuck a few bees into a box, turn the tap and out comes the honey. The reality is far removed from the fiction of the markeing videos I'm afraid.

Bees are like any livestock..... would you start to keep a herd of cows without knowing a bit about what you have to do to look after them ? 50,000 stinging insects in a box can be a very challenging situation for you (and if you get it wrong) your neighbours.

This forum is a really hepful place for sorting out the problems we all face from time to time ... but it's no substitute for a bit (indeed - a LOT) of proper research.

 

[Anduril]

This may be of interest for dimensions as a guide.
http://www.scottishbeekeepers.org.u...heets/TDS number 5 langstroth and md hive.pdf
Also a good source of information is the Dave Cushman website.

 

[MuswellMetro]

PM me when you put the flow hive on ebay, as i wouldn't mind playing with one but wont pay their prices

 

[mjt68]

PM me when you put the flow hive on ebay, as i wouldn't mind playing with one but wont pay their prices

This might be useful advice actually. Not to give up but to find out what size frames you have from the nuc and go with them for a hive and bin the flow hive. Changing frames or formats is always an ugly fudge and gives you more problems than you need as a beginner. The other option is a shook swarm and forget about a crop this year.

 

[Ben32]

Thanks for the offer!
But I've got this!

 

[colinc]

I agree. I am prone to self researching and using YouTube which is brilliant for showing how to do something but a good book or course will tell you what you should be doing and when. Planning ahead means far less stress and rushed mistakes being made.
Asides from that watching the "What did you do in the apiary today" thread let's you know what others are doing and what to expect. That is recognising the fact that Cornwall and the south east tend to be a couple of weeks ahead of the midlands and another couple ahead of The borders.
Good luck with your bees.


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[Ben32]

Thanks

 

[Ben32]

Just to let every1 know , I have been down and successfully attached the national frames to the lang frames with tie wraps, bees look great and there seems to be a lot more than there was Sunday and we saw the queen going about her business so I added 2 more frames with foundation on between the other frames,
Think everything looking good, just need to work the old frames out now

 

[colinc]

I have a similar issue with the difference between B.s. National and Modified National (a stupid unknown american invention) frames fit boxes but depth and top bar lengths differ. I am also walking frames out to sides of nest to be removed at the moment.


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[Anduril]

Just to let every1 know , I have been down and successfully attached the national frames to the lang frames with tie wraps, bees look great and there seems to be a lot more than there was Sunday and we saw the queen going about her business so I added 2 more frames with foundation on between the other frames,
Think everything looking good, just need to work the old frames out now

That's great news, we'll done.

 

[Ben32]

When will I know when it will be best to start removing the national frames?

 

[colinc]

When will I know when it will be best to start removing the national frames?

When they are stores only and brood free. You may have a small amount of brood left in them. Either remove and freeze. Or raise them above a queen excluder until completely brood free then remove and store for winter feed, or discard.


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