Frames and Foundation

[peteinwilts]

Hi Guys

Is it wise to mount foundation onto frames and keep them in unused supers for storage or will they warp or get eaten.

Also, I purchased some bees on Sunday . The guy I bought them from uses a 2" strip of foundation at the top of the frame and thats it.

Does anyone else do this and\or recommend this??

Thanks in advance
Cheers
Pete

 

[BKF Admin]

I have heared of beekeepers that buy unwired foundation and cut it into 3.
Never tried it myself.

 

[Finman]

Does anyone else do this and\or recommend this??

NO\NO Foundation's place is inside the frame.

 

[Poly Hive]

Some very tight people do put in foundation strips for the heather.

Apart from that if you want to keep bees in a movable frame hive I very seriously suggest you invest in good quality frames and buy foundation from a quality vendor like Kemble.

PH

 

[peteinwilts]

This guy read about it and was experimenting. Out of the frames he was trying it with, only 10-15% of the foundation had been drawn, and on the frames with strips, 2/3's of the frames were filled.

It was his first time trying it and was trying two or three of each and the bees seem to favour the strips.


How about the mounting the foundation in frames for storage (whole pieces!)? Does anyone do this is it better flat packed?

 

[Nellie]

I was toying with the idea of experimenting with Foundationless frames. I think it's seen by some as dabbling in the "hippy" end of beekeeping and there is the suggestion that you really need to put new frames between two that are already drawn if you want to end up with comb actually in the frame rather than somewhere in the proximity of it. That said, still not tried it myself so could be talking totally out of the wrong hole.

I personally like the idea of just leaving the bees to the draw the comb that they want rather than forcing/guiding them with foundation but that may well just be my inner hippy trying to escape.

 

[Finman]

.
1) Without foundations bees produce a lot drones

3) Foundation is wax recycling. It saves bees' work and honey.

wax strips = a great missunderstanding about saving. - And you pay 3 fold price about frames.......

 

[Nellie]

1) Without foundations bees produce a lot drones

I do wonder how much of a bearing this has on our famed inability to get well mated queens when we reduce the number of drones that a hive would otherwise produce?

Not trying to smart, just genuinely curious what the relationship, if any, is between the two. I know lots of drones = less honey, but might it make for better mated queens?

 

[Finman]

I do wonder how much of a bearing this has on our famed inability to get well mated queens ?

England is only place where is too few drones.

To every virgin queen there are 1000 drones. Is that enough?

Queens does not mate in rain or in cold weather even if you give them 5000 drones.

Foundations has been used over 100 years, and what is problem now?

 

[Poly Hive]

Well Nellie and all of the hippy tendencies.

As Finman says foundation has been used for over 100 years for good reason. It guides the bees and enables the movable comb hive to actually work.

Mess with these basic principles at your peril.

As for bees drawing their own comb rather than the foundation, my immediate thought is what is wrong with the foundation?

If the beekeeper is so tight they want to get four frames drawn from each sheet, ie using strips who did they buy it from, when and how has it been stored?

Then try and tell me the bees prefer to build wild.

Good grief people the whole point of foundation and frames is to have combs you can inspect.

I had the privilege of opening a hive that had not been touched for 15 years, this being pre varroa of course, and it opened up no bother at all.

I have seen a brood box with a complete set of empty frames with wild comb built at 45 degrees through the whole thing effectively making it a skep.

Stick to the basics. they are there for good reason. If you have to be hippy wear a bobble cap and leave beekeeping alone they winna mix.

PH

 

[Finman]

Then try and tell me the bees prefer .

PH

I do not ask what bees prefer. I know that they want me to keep off from "their" hives. Bees try to remind me by stinging.

Bees have drawn every foundation what I have given.
Thanks to them, I have cleaned their own burr from gaps many tens of time.

*************

If you keep cattle and think what they want, take first all fences off.

When I was 4 years old we had one cow. It was in the forest with other village cows. It came to home gate when it was time to milk.

.

 

[FenBee]

Well, I have used virtually empty frames with just a small strip of wax at the top of the fame and many of the frames are completely full of comb now. The bees initially drew the comb in an arc until it touched the bottom of the frame and then filled in the rest of the frame. OK some frames contain drone comb as you would expect for Spring and early Summer. But, most frames contain worker cells and there is no brace comb at all.

The great thing about this method is you know the source of the wax (your bees) and it's cheap too

By the way I'm no hippy, just an engineer who likes to think outside the box, or should that read hive!.

 

[Poly Hive]

There is a very practical reason for having "proper" foundation in it and that is strength when inspecting the comb.

PH

 

[FenBee]

There is a very practical reason for having "proper" foundation in it and that is strength when inspecting the comb.

PH

You are quite right on that point PH and the foundation is strongest when is is wired. I was very careful handling the frames, until the wax was attached to all side and I still do not handle the frames, as I would with ones based on foundation.

Maybe one way forward, if you want the bees to make the comb, is to pre-wire the frames, using the horizontal wiring method. Although even then I would not expect the comb to be as strong as that based on the more rigged foundation.

 

[sherwood]

here is a very simple equation a bees have to travel once round the world to make 1lb of honey it requires 10lb of honey to make 1lb of wax. lets say honey sells at £4 a lb that makes a loss of £40 to make 1lb of wax speaks for its self.
Against that if the bees have drawn their own wax at least you are sure that there is no residual chemicals present from prior use. You pays your money and you make your choices.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Some obviously cannot understand why a frame in a hive is designed as it is,it is to take a full sheet of foundation,so what is the point of trying to convert one of these designs of hive into a top bar hive. If you want the bee's to use your own wax,then press your own foundation.

 

[Melbourne12]

Hi Guys

Is it wise to mount foundation onto frames and keep them in unused supers for storage or will they warp or get eaten.

...

FWIW (since we are newbies), we have a small supply of frames made up with wired foundation ready for putting in supers. We keep them in a box designed for keeping blankets for under-bed storage. It's moth-tight, and keeps the wax dark and reasonably cool. We keep spare sheets of foundation there too.

 

[shonabee]

I put foundation on frames before I needed them, as (a) I wanted come to ahnd, and (b) was over-excited about getting bees and pretty sure they didn't need ANOTHER inspection.....kept me out of mischeif!
I put them in a sealed plastic box to keep the beeswaxy smell etc, as was told on course that without the smell the bees will ignore it and not build comb.

 

[Finman]

...The great thing about this method is you know the source of the wax (your bees) and it's cheap too

Do you know that if bees make foundations to the langtroth box,
it is 1 kg wax and the cost is 8 kg honey/box.

Foundation is much more cheaper.

My opinion is that source of wax is mere hippi speaking.

 

[peteinwilts]

regarding strips of foundation. I have another thread saying that I have extra wide frames of comb. Isn't there a good chance that using foundation strips has caused this as the bee's old owner gave the bees extra wide stonking amount of space to build on...?