Frame Spacing reduces Drones, Swarming & Varroa???

[Beefriendly]

It's just that I can't believe a virus can be managed so easily

Manage???, more fortuitous me thinks. It was simply an explanation why those bees survived without treatment. Until the virology study they (Hoskins et al) were convinced, and advertised, how hygienic those bees were.
An example of how easy it is to kid ourselves that we know what is going on. Like the current confusion of equating hygienic behaviour with varroa sensitive hygienic behaviour.
Most testing is done solely for hygienic behaviour only (pin prick assay/liquid nitrogen kill etc). LASI please take note.

 

[For want of a better word]

The study was to understand why the Swindon bees seemed to be able to cope with DWV. The findings where that strain B was so overwhelming dominate that it didn't allow the more damaging A strain to take hold.

They don't know why, but, they do acknowledge that in an atypical environment that the A strain outcompetes the B strain almost every time.

They cite studies which show that varroa predominantly carries strain A.

The "B" strain also reduced life expectancy of the bees... there is also a C type!

Preference would not to have any of these imported foreign Johnnie bee viruses in the first place....

.... falls over backwards and spills me beer... What!!

Yeghes da

 

[B+.]

An example of how easy it is to kid ourselves that we know what is going on. Like the current confusion of equating hygienic behaviour with varroa sensitive hygienic behaviour.
Most testing is done solely for hygienic behaviour only (pin prick assay/liquid nitrogen kill etc). LASI please take note.

What confusion?
Hygienic behaviour is only part of the performance test and is used as an indicator for those lines worth testing further. VSH testing is very labour intensive so only high-scoring hygiene colonies qualify

 

[foghornleghorn]

The study was to understand why the Swindon bees seemed to be able to cope with DWV. The findings where that strain B was so overwhelming dominate that it didn't allow the more damaging A strain to take hold.

They don't know why, but, they do acknowledge that in an atypical environment that the A strain outcompetes the B strain almost every time.

They cite studies which show that varroa predominantly carries strain A.

I'd say that it's not a case the type b didn't allow type a to take hold but type b was selected for by a combination of not treating, more swarmy, less prolific bees creating the conditions that favour a less destructive strain.
Mycorrhizae give a very good example of how this could occur, they range from purely symbiotic to purely parasitic and everything in between. What strains dominate depends on the environment.

 

[domino]

I'd say that it's not a case the type b didn't allow type a to take hold but type b was selected for by a combination of not treating, more swarmy, less prolific bees creating the conditions that favour a less destructive strain.

The only study into this doesn't claim any of this, they clearly say they don't know why it happens - but it is very rare.

 

[Finman]

They sequence the RNA. Doesn't your local beekeeping club have access to a genetics lab?

Never heard. I think that that type B and type A is British speciality. Where you forgot varroa itself!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I'd say that it's not a case the type b didn't allow type a to take hold but type b was selected for by a combination of not treating, more swarmy, less prolific bees creating the conditions that favour a less destructive strain.

The only study into this doesn't claim any of this, they clearly say they don't know why it happens - but it is very rare.

It looks like some on here have extrapolated a theory from nothing.

All of a sudden there seems to be an assumption that the whole study stems from people discovering a different strain of DWV in Ron Hoskins' magic bees when in fact finding it in the Swindon bees came much later in Steve Martin's study of DWV B.
The B strain is widespread in the Southern hemisphere and might explain why there is no real varroa threat down there, and before someone pipes up about scutellata being different - There are a lot of isolated Mellifera colonies in Southern America, Hawaii and other places, all coping with varroa and all carrying DWV B.
Martin actually stated in his talk that the B virus may be a lot more prevalent in the UK than we think it's just that testing colonies for it is prohibitively expensive thus the only way to find out would be to stop treating and see what happens.
I guess we'll just have to wait until Prof. Martin's teams in Hawaii and other places find out more about the virus to see whether there is a solution there to bees living with varroa.

 

[Beefriendly]

What confusion?
Hygienic behaviour is only part of the performance test and is used as an indicator for those lines worth testing further. VSH testing is very labour intensive so only high-scoring hygiene colonies qualify

Think you have explained the problem quite well. It's labor intensive testing for true varroa sensitive hygiene so easier to test for colonies that exhibit non varroa specific hygienic behavior, although to date this has no correlation to varroa sensitive hygiene.

 

[Fusion_power]

although to date this has no correlation to varroa sensitive hygiene.

This is not quite correct. As Marla Spivak put it, "all VSH colonies are highly hygienic, but not all hygienic colonies are VSH".

Speculation is that hygienic traits are a necessary component of VSH expression. It makes sense to start with stock that is hygienic.

Please emphasize that VSH is not the end of the story for varroa resistance. It is a starting point. In my experience, VSH is only effective when combined with another resistance trait such as allogrooming.

 

[SDM]

I can't help feeling the super infection theory is madness. Granted there is a concept that viruses will tend to mutate to less virulent strains. A longer living host gives them and selective advantage. This is quite logical, but so is the likelihood that with ever higher virus levels(a super infection) more and varied mutation will occur. At the moment some bees in every hive will carry a strain of the virus. Were suggesting every bee in every hive should have it, raising environmental virus levels to a degree I can't conceive.
What's to prevent a new lethal variant in this global virus soup? We would simply be making the likelihood of something like a lethal airborne DWV becoming a possibility a year or 2 down the line.
I'll say it again, seems like madness to me.

 

[SDM]

Please emphasize that VSH is not the end of the story for varroa resistance. It is a starting point. In my experience, VSH is only effective when combined with another resistance trait such as allogrooming.

What levels of vsh do your bees display? Are they ALL displaying high VSH levels?
If not then those with higher mite levels would be affecting those with lower through cross infestation and you would have no idea if vsh alone is sufficient.

 

[For want of a better word]

I can't help feeling the super infection theory is madness. Granted there is a concept that viruses will tend to mutate to less virulent strains. A longer living host gives them and selective advantage. This is quite logical, but so is the likelihood that with ever higher virus levels(a super infection) more and varied mutation will occur. At the moment some bees in every hive will carry a strain of the virus. Were suggesting every bee in every hive should have it, raising environmental virus levels to a degree I can't conceive.
What's to prevent a new lethal variant in this global virus soup? We would simply be making the likelihood of something like a lethal airborne DWV becoming a possibility a year or 2 down the line.
I'll say it again, seems like madness to me.

Did have sight of an unpublished work that showed A type DWV virus was evolved 800 tears ago ( 2017) but B 80 years ago... or was that CBPV?
Possibly blamed of the IOW disease epidemic.......

All academic for beekeepers now... we just have to accept that our forefathers moving species around the planet was possibly not such a good idea and the pests and disease that we have now... [all be it inadvertently] saddled ourselves with are here to stay..

Mytten da
Just have to get on and live with it

 

[B+.]

As Marla Spivak put it, "all VSH colonies are highly hygienic, but not all hygienic colonies are VSH".

Speculation is that hygienic traits are a necessary component of VSH expression. It makes sense to start with stock that is hygienic.

Hygienic behaviour is only part of the performance test and is used as an indicator for those lines worth testing further. VSH testing is very labour intensive so only high-scoring hygiene colonies qualify

That's pretty much what I said

 

[Fusion_power]

What levels of vsh do your bees display? Are they ALL displaying high VSH levels?

I don't test for VSH. I don't test for allogrooming. I have verified that my bees are expressing both traits. At the end of the year, they are alive and thriving. I did a mite check a couple of years ago and had 15 mites in 48 days. I simply ignore mites and manage my bees. I am doing the selection work to increase honey production and reduce swarming. I have far more problems with hive beetles than with varroa. Hive beetles make it difficult to raise queens in late summer.

 

[For want of a better word]

I don't test for VSH. I don't test for allogrooming. I have verified that my bees are expressing both traits. At the end of the year, they are alive and thriving. I did a mite check a couple of years ago and had 15 mites in 48 days. I simply ignore mites and manage my bees. I am doing the selection work to increase honey production and reduce swarming. I have far more problems with hive beetles than with varroa. Hive beetles make it difficult to raise queens in late summer.

How do you manage the hive beetle???... not seen in the UK yet!
AND IF our boarder patrol and ports inspectorate was properly and adequately funded we may never see it!

Nos da

 

[SDM]

Surely the odds are we've seen it several times already but it's not found a.foothold.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

AND IF our boarder patrol and ports inspectorate was properly and adequately funded we may never see it!

Nos da

Dream on - it would take a special kind of idiot to believe HMG would plough any extra cash into BF or IE once we have 'taken our country back' Whatever that's supposed to mean.

 

[Finman]

When Fusion has highly mite resistant bees, how essential is narrow spacing in this process? Does it succeed with normal spacing?

.

 

[Fusion_power]

When Fusion has highly mite resistant bees, how essential is narrow spacing in this process? Does it succeed with normal spacing?

As I stated earlier, I don't see any difference in mite resistance caused by cell size or comb spacing. I use 5.1 mm cell size and 32 mm comb spacing because it triggers earlier spring buildup. A good colony will be ready to split by the 1st of April which is about 3 weeks earlier than a colony on 5.4 mm cells and 35 mm comb spacing. I like having colonies ready to split early because they can make a crop of honey in both halves of the split.

Be glad you don't have hive beetles yet. I lost 7 queen nucs over the last 3 months because of them. Fortunately, they were just late fall queens that were not needed in production colonies.

 

[Finman]

I like having colonies ready to split early because they can make a crop of honey in both halves of the split.

my experience is totally different.
Yields will not come via splitting. I make yield via uniting.

Fusion, if you want 450 lbs honey in 2 months from you hive, how do you arrange things to get it?
.