frame spacing - national

[beesleybees]

Hi guys,

Been putting frames together ready for the big flow of OSR.

Anyway, i have made up some self spacing brood frames (DN4 i think) as well as some not self spacing super frames (SN1??)

As the super frames are not self spacing, ive put some catellatd spacers in the super. When the frames are put in, the space btween the top bars is 19mm compared to 12mm on the self spacing brood frames

19mm between the top bars in the super to me looks a lot and im woundering if this will cause the bees to draw out brace comb

any advice welcomed

 

[RoofTops]

This is a bit like that story about someone stopping their car to ask for directions and being told "If you want to go there I wouldn't start from here."

So if you were able to start from a different place I would use DN5s in my brood chamber and Manleys in the supers.

As you are starting from the wrong place - just ignore the gaps. If/when the bees put in brace comb between the top bars you can take that as a hint you should have added a super earlier. Lots of people use SN1s in supers although most use them with plastic spacers but if retro-beekeeping is your thing then castellations have a long pedigree.

 

[MJBee]

BB I assume your super frames are not yet drawn, and that there are less than 11 in the box. I would remove your castellated super and replace it with a super containing 11 frames of foundation, space them out evenly by eye. When these are drawn you can transfer them to your castellated super and the bees will draw them further to restore the beespace gap. I use 9 frame supers - easier to uncap and my extractor takes 9 frames

 

[Swarm]

They may and then again, they may not. I've one hive that gladly draws out lovely comb from foundation on 10 slot castellations and another where I have the brood on 11 slot (best solution for their love of propolis)The bees will draw super (stores) frames out further than brood anyway. You could always use 11 slot this season and change for 10 slot next year. If you have drawn comb, try foundation frames between drawn.

 

[enrico]

I wouldn't risk it. If they start to draw brace comb in the wrong place it is difficult to deal with especially with little experience. Mjbee has the answer. You will find plastic spacers of different widths. If you buy wide ones then the idea is to overlap them by pushing alternative spacers further down the frame lugg. When the bees have stareted drawing out the frames remove three frames and put the spacers butt on to each other. The gap is now wider and the bees draw the comb out further, more honey for less cappings.
E

 

[For want of a better word]

There are some very nice metal frame spacers on fleabuy at the moment, when you cut your fingers on them... do not worry the honey will heal the cuts quickly.

Grandad used to use drone sized foundation in the supers for a bigger fill for less wax.

 

[REDWOOD]

Buy some metal runners and frame spacers to put you mind at rest

 

[Headnavigator]

Any reason why you can't tack a gimp pin through each plastic frame spacer to the top bar on SN1s to make the spacing secure? Then they don't knock off. OK next time I'll buy Manleys maybe.

 

[enrico]

Sometimes your frames won't fit in an extractor with spacers on frames (depends on model) so make sure they do before pinning them to frames!!!

 

[Headnavigator]

Thanks Enrico will make a quick check before I do anything I may regret!

 

[enrico]

You will find there is less chance of killing a queen with plastic spacers. You can see what you are squashing. With self spacing frames it is too easy to push the frames together just as the queen goes between them but too far down the frame for you to see her.
E

 

[MuswellMetro]

I agree with the gist of most of the replies.

i assume you have bees on a budget hive that retail at £130 ish empty and use castles

my veiw is buy some metal runners at £1.50 per pair and on the SN1 frames buy wide spacers and use staggered at 11 per box to draw then go to 8 per box with spacers end to end to fil with honey

in future go for Manley or SN5 ( ie SN4 with the wide top bars), personally my bees build brace comb in Manley again like castles then give them room to drawn irregular comb

if it want to use manleys i alternate SN5 with the manaley to reduce the gaps when drawing so less wild comb

we advise our beginners to use SN4 or preferrable SN5 at 12 per box in their first years then try other methods later