Frame Spacing in Warre, TBH, and others

[DocBB]

I noticed on this forum that the spacing between the frames/bars is quite variable in topbar hives, tbh, warré..., from 1.25 inch or 3.175 cm wide for brood bars and 1.5 inches (3.81 cm) or more (5cm) for honey frames

Some Warre-ists install 7 frames (4.85 cm ; 1"9) for honey and 8 (3.75 cm ; 1"47) (for the brood ?) could be thought to nine frames for the cluster (3.33 cm ; 1"31) or even 10 according to TBH-ists dimensions
I saw the same, with the additional variation of the building (hot / cold), on the Voirnot 4X4 beehive

In short, is there a real advantage to choose different gauges other then standard trade racks? closer for the brood or queen rearing? or even prevention of swarming? or conversely ?
and there would be an advantage or a disadvantage to cross the frames example building on 8 or 9 (hot) and cross a 7 frame super?

tropically yours

 

[Brosville]

I have a feeling there's possibly something being lost in translation here......"Top Bar Hives" (including Warre hives) don't use frames at all (hence the name - top bar hive).
Some people use differing bar widths in Kenyan top bar hives, but most are happy to stick with 35 mm throughout - as for Warre hives, they're built differently, usually with 8 bars per box - width of 24mm per bar, 12mm gaps
(there are no "gaps" in a Kenyan top bar hive) - I have seen no departure from the Warre design (nor could understand any reason for it)
I'm of the opinion that there is a certain newbie foible whereby wheels are regularly redesigned for the sake of it, often because of a limited grasp of the subject. As for subverting or preventing swarming - that's not usually a preoccupation of the usual users of TBH hives, who tend more towards the "swarming is natural" attitude, and as no queen excluders are used, it's impossible to anticipate the use to which the bees will put the provided bars.... (often the use will change over time anyway.....)

As for hot cross frames, you lost me totally there........

 

[Mike a]

As for hot cross frames, you lost me totally there........

Placing the next chamber at 90' to the lower chamber. first warm way, next cold way etc etc.?

 

[DocBB]

I have a feeling there's possibly something being lost in translation here......"Top Bar Hives" (including Warre hives) don't use frames at all (hence the name - top bar hive).

Frames or bars ... my question wax about space between -- the middle -- of the bar or frame : shrinked configuration for brood an oversized for honey

 

[DocBB]

Placing the next chamber at 90' to the lower chamber. first warm way, next cold way etc etc.?

yes

 

[Skyhook]

Some Warre-ists install 7 frames (4.85 cm ; 1"9) for honey and 8 (3.75 cm ; 1"47) (for the brood ?) could be thought to nine frames for the cluster (3.33 cm ; 1"31) or even 10 according to TBH-ists tropically yours

Now I'm confused. Just started looking into warre hives after reading another thread. I thought the point was that there are no brood boxes or honey boxes, just wherever the beess have got to as they work their way down?

 

[oliver90owner]

Simple. All brood boxes become honey boxes throughout the season - excepting the last, of course. Nothing complicated. Brood boxes are the same as honey boxes.

You need to read more than the odd thread. Information in books is usually far more reliable, factwise, than some individual's thoughts in a forum thread. The poster may be as uninformed as you, whereas the book should, at least, have been compiled from a study of the best available data at that time.

RAB

 

[Hivemaker.]

Information in books is usually far more reliable, factwise, than some individual's thoughts in a forum thread. The poster may be as uninformed as you, whereas the book should, at least, have been compiled from a study of the best available data at that time.


[ame]http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bee-Movie-Essential-Guide-Dreamworks/dp/1405318481/ref=sr_1_17?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283600263&sr=8-17[/ame]

 

[wilderness]

more reading matter

http://www.dheaf.plus.com/warrebeekeeping/warre_experiment_heaf.htm

 

[Der Alte Fritz]

Now I'm confused. Just started looking into warre hives after reading another thread. I thought the point was that there are no brood boxes or honey boxes, just wherever the beess have got to as they work their way down?

Have a look at this site http://mygarden.uphero.com/ModifiedAbbeWarreHive.htm

where you can download an English copy of Abbe Warre's own book.

 

[oliver90owner]

What was it? 6 developed to 13 colonies (and several lost in that time) over 3 seasons and no honey harvest? In fact probably negative as some colonies were fed fondant in the first winter.

Not a good record for productivity?

Certainly good for swarming, too. It might also highlight the effect of swarming on honey production, and the lottery of life or starvation for colonies left to fend for themselves

I would need to see a lot more data than that, before coming to any sensible conclusions about the system. My first impressions is of a failed project thus far.

Regards, RAB

 

[Dishmop]

8 bars in a box

Bees build comb.

When box is full the and the queen has no more space to lay eggs, she moves down to next box, and when brood is all hatched the space is used for stores and so on.

In winter they move thier way back up eating the stores as they go.

I suppose bees in national hives with frames would do the same if when boxes were added they were put underneath as opposed to on top.

If theres no space downstairs you have to go up, and if theres no space upstairs you have to go down.

 

[Skyhook]

Simple. All brood boxes become honey boxes throughout the season - excepting the last, of course. Nothing complicated. Brood boxes are the same as honey boxes.

You need to read more than the odd thread. Information in books is usually far more reliable, factwise, than some individual's thoughts in a forum thread. The poster may be as uninformed as you, whereas the book should, at least, have been compiled from a study of the best available data at that time.

RAB

Quite. That's why I questioned different spacings in different boxes.

 

[oliver90owner]

Skyhook,

Sorry didn't see that question in your post.

Here is your post again:

Now I'm confused. Just started looking into warre hives after reading another thread. I thought the point was that there are no brood boxes or honey boxes, just wherever the beess have got to as they work their way down?

Where did I miss it?

RAB

 

[Dishmop]

Where did I miss it?

during the adverts when you went to make a cup of tea...??????????????

 

[Skyhook]

Skyhook,

Sorry didn't see that question in your post.

Here is your post again:

Now I'm confused. Just started looking into warre hives after reading another thread. I thought the point was that there are no brood boxes or honey boxes, just wherever the beess have got to as they work their way down?

Where did I miss it?

RAB

Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBB
Some Warre-ists install 7 frames (4.85 cm ; 1"9) for honey and 8 (3.75 cm ; 1"47) (for the brood ?) could be thought to nine frames for the cluster (3.33 cm ; 1"31) or even 10 according to TBH-ists tropically yours

Now I'm confused. Just started looking into warre hives after reading another thread. I thought the point was that there are no brood boxes or honey boxes, just wherever the beess have got to as they work their way down?

 

[oliver90owner]

And post #2 from Bosville:

as for Warre hives, they're built differently, usually with 8 bars per box - width of 24mm per bar, 12mm gaps
(there are no "gaps" in a Kenyan top bar hive) - I have seen no departure from the Warre design (nor could understand any reason for it)

Still confused?