frame numbers vs honey yield

[Gilberdyke John]

What do you do to cut your fingers on castellations? I've used them in supers and brood boxes for the last 7 years without a single cut and I use nitrile gloves.

I don't use castellations. If I want thicker comb in supers I space the frames by eye. None of my bees have developed strong enough muscles to shift them around themselves (yet?).

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

What do you do to cut your fingers on castellations?

there are a lot of cheap and nasty, flimsy castellations being sold by some suppliers, loads of sharp edges and just not good to work with.

 

[Newbeeneil]

there are a lot of cheap and nasty, flimsy castellations being sold by some suppliers, loads of sharp edges and just not good to work with.

Yes, quality ones do make it easier

 

[mbc]

I largely use 9 per super - my extractor takes 9 frames so it makes the process a bit simpler. I found with nine the yield is better than with eleven.

I started using 9 frames to a super for exactly the same reason.
Now that reason's long gone as I've a few different extractors* but I still like to get my frames into a 9 frame format in the supers as I find it makes uncapping that much quicker with fatter frames.
In our system foundation goes through an evolution of being drawn out on 11, many partially drawn frames go to a 10 but all with the aim of getting them onto 9, suits us.
*My original Thornes universal 9 frame extractor is still going strong, those Groschop motors are brill, I've had to replace the bushes a few times but it works like new and only yesterday it was returned by a mate who'd borrowed it to spin out his dozen or so supers.

 

[Amari]

*My original Thornes universal 9 frame extractor is still going strong, those Groschop motors are brill, I've had to replace the bushes a few times but it works like new and only yesterday it was returned by a mate who'd borrowed it to spin out his dozen or so supers.

Maybe that's the same as my 15-year old T's plastic 9 frame radial. Still going strong with no motor problems.
Downside: won't take 9 Manleys (my preferred super frame), only 3, each flanked by a Hoffman.
Never used wired super foundation.

 

[Hachi]

Just so I get my thinking clear, are we saying the less frames we have in a super, the more honey we get?

 

[Jules59]

Just so I get my thinking clear, are we saying the less frames we have in a super, the more honey we get?

only up to a point - there appears to be a sweet spot where with fewer frames the cells are drawn out longer per frame which allows more honey per frame and then the total honey can exceed that obtained with more frames with shorter cells.

 

[Newbeeneil]

Just so I get my thinking clear, are we saying the less frames we have in a super, the more honey we get?

Basically with 11 frames you have 12 Bee space gaps between frames, with 9 you only have 10. Hence 2 extra bee spaces full of honey.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

so you are saying that if we have fewer frames in our supers our bees will make more honey ipso facto honey yield will increase - so we don't need as many bees, and we don't need as many supers

 

[Wilco]

Not sure that's the gist, more honey per super doesn't mean all supers get filled to max every time.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

looks like all these bee farmers (probably the majority) who use hoffman spacings throughout have all got it wrong

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Not sure that's the gist, more honey per super doesn't mean all supers get filled to max every time.

but it doesn't really matter - as they yield will miraculously increase if you use wider spacing

 

[Martimart]

so you're saying that the fewer frames you have the more honey you get.
I can smell something - and it isn't the ivy flowering

You would think it doesn't work out, have a go and try it. I had a hive this year with 8 frames on, i left a frame space in the middle to get a load of cut comb which worked well, if you space the frames slightly further apart they draw the cells more protruding from the frame edge, less flush, so you do actually get more honey from each frame. Obviously each hive only has a certain space within it to contain honey, so not convinced you actually get more honey as such, but would would at least get the same amount of honey, with less frames to extract.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

so you do actually get more honey from each frame

you might get more honey per frame, but that doesn't miraculously mean your overall honey yield increases - bees don't make more honey just because there's a bigger gap between frames

 

[roche]

you might get more honey per frame, but that doesn't miraculously mean your overall honey yield increases - bees don't make more honey just because there's a bigger gap between frames

But the ratio of honey to frames, honey to uncapping and honey to wax changes. The first two imply less work for the beekeeper...

 

[Martimart]

you might get more honey per frame, but that doesn't miraculously mean your overall honey yield increases - bees don't make more honey just because there's a bigger gap between frames

Agreed "not convinced you actually get more honey as such, but would would at least get the same amount of honey, with less frames to extract."

 

[Wilco]

but it doesn't really matter - as they yield will miraculously increase if you use wider spacing

Can't get my head round this. More honey within a super, can see that. Not more honey overall... Unless there's a thermal efficiency saving of less dead space of fewer supers used overall but seems a bit tenuous as I doubt people use fewer supers when doing it.

 

[Newbeeneil]

Can't get my head round this. More honey within a super, can see that. Not more honey overall... Unless there's a thermal efficiency saving of less dead space of fewer supers used overall but seems a bit tenuous as I doubt people use fewer supers when doing it.

JBM is just being obtuse. We all know the bees won't produce more honey on the same forage. But it will reduce the cost of frames, supers and labour during extraction.

 

[peterbees]

Anything less than ten frames in a national box and your increasing the probability of breaking the lugs quite drastically.
Ten is the ideal.
I've tried aĺl sorts over the years, now settled on commercial supers with manley frames for spun frames and national manley for cut comb, still have thousands of SN4 in the system which are gradually being replaced. It's the castleations that are a pain, literally, as I keep cutting my fingers on them.
Also we have twenty frame extractors, odd numbers wouldn't work.

I used to get cut fingers too. I've now removed the sharp corners on the castellated spacers. It's also much easier to load frames to the super.

 

[peterbees]

My supers are all currently nationals with 11 sn frames per box and i have had these for the past few seasons.

Next season, im looking to maximise my output where possible, im looking at the following options

1. 10 sn frames
2. 9 sn frames
3. 10 manley frames

Out of interest, from personal experience has anyone noticed greater yields with different frame setups? And, if so, was it worthwhile?

I use 10-frame castellated spacers in a National super.
I use only thin unwired foundation, because I'm concerned about bits of wire getting in my heather honey, which I press out.
The bees draw out supers of foundation OK with 10-frame spacing, without making brace comb between the frames. I get good heavy combs.
I use a Thorne's 9-frame electric extractor, fitted with three tangential screens, extracting six shallow frames at a time.