Flow hive video

[Karol]

I don't know anything about the Flow hive so can't comment on it but a lot of us store our supers wet. They can get a little fermented but the bees deal with them and the honey is OK. Bees won't store honey in dirty cells. They are thoroughly cleaned.

OK but my understanding of the Flow hive architecture is that bees can't access the collection channels to clean away the honey trapped there which isn't the case with wet supers which are completely accessible to bees.

 

[Tremyfro]

I am beginning to think that you are clutching at straws Karol. The wax supers...when harvested are not kept in sterile conditions. In fact many beekeepers keep them over winter in a shed. The bees clean them up before putting honey in them. Using the flow frames for subsequent refills during the season shouldn't be any more of a problem for the bees. I suppose at the end of the season they could be rinsed through to remove any lingering honey....if you were concerned.
You have raised many concerns about the flow frames. Perhaps it is time to purchase some and find out directly and to test your concerns.

 

[Swarm]

Why?
OK but my understanding of the Flow hive architecture is that bees can't access the collection channels to clean away the honey trapped there which isn't the case with wet supers which are completely accessible to bees.
You didn't answer this concern. Bees will clean wet comb because they can access it, without access what do you think would happen?

 

[Karol]

I'm sorry Tremyfro that you've taken my concerns in a negative vein. To my mind exploring issues raises awareness and allows those involved to reflect and anticipate potential problems preventing them from becoming a reality. I'm sure you wouldn't want to sell contaminated honey as the consequence of an operational oversight?

My understanding and I'd be delighted to be corrected is that the space between the cells and at the base of the comb where the harvested honey collects can't be reached by the bees in the hive. If that is the case then residues of honey after the initial harvest will be prone to microbial growth because of the moist, light and warm environment. Perhaps the plastic is self preserving and has silver nanotechnology and my concerns simply aren't an issue. But perhaps the plastic isn't self preserving and the matter shouldn't be left to chance!

Understanding microbiological contamination I can envisage a situation where the first jars/containers of honey drawn from the hive in subsequent harvests may have higher levels of microbes than the rest of the batch which may not be detected if samples are drawn from other parts of the batch as part of quality control.

 

[Tremyfro]

I understand your concerns and also that you are playing devils advocate. That is good as then people have to think for themselves but it does seem a bit like nit picking. We don't know all the answers yet as we haven't even started a first harvest let alone a subsequent one. I don't know the answers either. Perhaps you could raise these concerns with the Flow team. They are very helpful.

 

[Karol]

Taking any invention forward to fruition is an amazing achievement. That said it is an iterative process frequently of two steps forward and one step back. In the case of Flow hive their stellar success in capturing the imagination is potentially at the cost of cutting short part of the iterative process meaning that product is in use before it has been fully understood. Not necessarily a bad thing but it does mean that early adopters must be more diligent and circumspect because they are the guinea pigs or rather their bees and honey consumers are. So not so much nit picking or playing devil's advocate as hopefully begging useful questions to avoid disappointments and failures.

 

[Ely]

Flow Hive Harvest

https://youtu.be/X5RN-ztkmn8

 

[pargyle]

https://youtu.be/X5RN-ztkmn8

What I find extraordinary about this video is that there is hardly a bee to be seen - yes there are bees (apparently) bearding on the front of the hive but not a single bee around where the honey is being extracted ? If I spill as much as a drop of honey in my apiary it's immediately pounced on by every bee in the vicinity trying to clear it up ?

Are bees in the USA on drugs ??? Unbelievably laid back.

I'm still very sceptical about how well these contraptions will work in the UK - the number of really hot days we get, even on the Costa del Fareham, are pretty few and far between these days and my ripe honey at normal room temperatures tends not to be as runny as that in this video. I can see a situation that the nirvana of turning a handle in the apiary is going to turn into removing the box with the flow frames to some place sealed from bees (after putting a clearer board underneath it to get rid of the bees) and then having a warming cabinet big enough to warm the lot up enough to get it to 'flow'.

Hmmm ... Fun ? Sounds a bit like conventional beekeeping without an extractor to me ...

 

[Ely]

Yes I was surprised the bees didn't mob the jars. You can see the bees were present in the hive. They were coming and going from the entrance in the background. Perhaps there was a flow on and the the bees were too preoccupied with that to notice. An overall successful harvest but still not enough to tempt me into this method. I like to harvest cappings and add more to the hobby like candle making so it just isn't worth having a flow super when I will have other supers to take off anyway. I find uncapping while listening to the radio a fun way to waste time anyway

 

[Anduril]

OK but my understanding of the Flow hive architecture is that bees can't access the collection channels to clean away the honey trapped there which isn't the case with wet supers which are completely accessible to bees.

My understanding of the flow hive is that, that channel has to be washed, somewhere in the region of twice a year. It would have to be sterilised as the bees cannot get at it.

 

[Karol]

The video (link provided by Ely) is a little troubling. The presenter said that the honey from one of the frames tasted like sour candy. Might be natural variation but might also be fungal digestion (fermentation) which would not be so good.

Professionally I don't think it wise that honey from flow hives be sold until it has been validated under stressed conditions to confirm its safety.