Flow hive video

[Motobiman]

That's going to be bookmarked for Beginner Training Sessions with advantages of wires!

Yes I copied it to our apiary manager as we have just installed a TBH for training purposes.

Any comb when it's warm is really delicate IMLE and I wonder if a loop or two of stainless wire would be a good idea for training hives?

 

[Tremyfro]

One question Tremyfro, when you do eventually harvest, what happens to all the torn and broken cappings? What's the bio-economic cost to the bees?

Well I have thought about that myself Karol. In the end I came to the conclusion that the repair work they would have to carry out would be mitigated by abundance of wax which they could reuse...as we know they do, as it isn't removed from the frame. They would also need to reseal the cells. However, the repair work would be less costly than repairing returned wax frames after harvest...when the cappings are removed and a lot of damage to all the cells needs to be repaired.
I haven't had the chance yet to put it into practice...so there are many unknowns about this extraction process.
Thinking about how bees manage their hive is fascinating. They are totally logical. I waxed the frames with some of the wax from my own hives. They reused this wax to fill in the gaps in the plastic cells. The wax which covered the top edges of the cells was cleared away. In a few areas where they haven't finished this work I can still see the wax I applied. I have seen no propolis in the frames.

 

[Karol]

I haven't seen anything from the Flow hive guys on this topic. Seems to me there are a number of issues:

1. Will the bees know that the cells have been harvested because caps (albeit torn) will remain in place or will they just repair the caps in situ?

2. If the bees recognise that the cells have been harvested and emptied they'll have to remove the cappings first which will be more less productive effort than working on exposed cells.

3. If the bees don't recognise the cells as empty and harvested, will that negate the intended benefit of the system as you'll have to go into the hive to de-cap the frames to make them usable again?

All of the videos that I've seen of the system without exception show honey leaking into the hive. Are you going to just leave it to the bees to sort out?

 

[Tremyfro]

I haven't seen anything from the Flow hive guys on this topic. Seems to me there are a number of issues:

1. Will the bees know that the cells have been harvested because caps (albeit torn) will remain in place or will they just repair the caps in situ?

2. If the bees recognise that the cells have been harvested and emptied they'll have to remove the cappings first which will be more less productive effort than working on exposed cells.

3. If the bees don't recognise the cells as empty and harvested, will that negate the intended benefit of the system as you'll have to go into the hive to de-cap the frames to make them usable again?

All of the videos that I've seen of the system without exception show honey leaking into the hive. Are you going to just leave it to the bees to sort out?

Evidence that the bees are aware that the honey is gone is clear as even before extraction is finished they start on the repairs. You don't have to go into the hive to clear away any cells which have retained the cap....
I have seen videos of beekeepers extracting the honey...in the USA. They have reported minimal or no honey at the bottom of the hive. The board is put in the higher slot during extraction...if any honey drips then the bees can reach it. The beekeepers have said that by turning the key in stages...a few inches at a time...it avoids the backup of honey in the tubes...which avoids the spill.
I don't know all about it yet Karol but if I get a harvest...doubtful this year as the weather is playing ducks and drakes....I will observe closely and report what happens. All the time beekeepers who are extracting report how it goes and what difficulties they experienced...if any. Mostly they are full of praise and end up ordering another set of frames...so I think , in general, the Flow frames are successful.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Here's one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5meu8cvbcgc

 

[Tremyfro]

I'm hoping she will be able to show a harvesting of the frames too. She has good forage where she lives.

 

[Erichalfbee]

This chap in Nottingham has harvested enough to sell

 

[Tremyfro]

So there you go! Flow Frames in use in the UK.

 

[Plenty of honey]

So there you go! Flow Frames in use in the UK.

yup nice video, but, that honey, oh so expensive if you worked it out!!!

 

[Tremyfro]

It's not about the money. In due course...if the weather is kind...then the frames will be refilled. They can be used over and over. It's the fun of it...and the fact that it is an innovative way of harvesting the honey.
Firstly people laughed at it...then they said it wouldn't work...then they said it had too many glitches...then they accepted that it worked....now they cavil at the cost.....but it is still fun!

 

[einsteinagogo]

yup nice video, but, that honey, oh so expensive if you worked it out!!!

he doesn't have to purchase an extractor, and find space for it, for 10 months of the year!

 

[Plenty of honey]

It's not about the money. In due course...if the weather is kind...then the frames will be refilled. They can be used over and over. It's the fun of it...and the fact that it is an innovative way of harvesting the honey.
Firstly people laughed at it...then they said it wouldn't work...then they said it had too many glitches...then they accepted that it worked....now they cavil at the cost.....but it is still fun!

Yes point taken, it is a nice way to harvest your honey. "Horses for courses" I always say.
I still think that those frames will get gunked up after the honey has been harvested. Unless he has non crystallising honey?? there will be enough remaining inside to cause a problem i would say. But, time will tell!!!

 

[Plenty of honey]

he doesn't have to purchase an extractor, and find space for it, for 10 months of the year!

Always a problem, my extractor is in the veranda most of the year, the cats love to sleep on it!!

 

[Tremyfro]

If there were a problem with crystallised honey in the frames...they come apart completely. So you could take them apart to wash any remaining honey out of them...if you wanted to. However, usually we store wet supers without problem over winter and give back to the bees in the spring. I guess you could do that. There is lots to learn about these frames which will only come with the seasons when they are in use.

 

[einsteinagogo]

If there were a problem with crystallised honey in the frames...they come apart completely. So you could take them apart to wash any remaining honey out of them...if you wanted to. However, usually we store wet supers without problem over winter and give back to the bees in the spring. I guess you could do that. There is lots to learn about these frames which will only come with the seasons when they are in use.

I suppose it comes down to if you are in a "danger" area of OSR flow.

I know, where my apiaries are located, I cannot get away from OSR. So there would be a risk of using them in Spring.. or you would have to drain the honey off quick to prevent rock hard honey on the frames, which would then stop you using them for summer crop, unless you wash it out.

 

[charlievictorbravo]

It's not about the money. In due course...if the weather is kind...then the frames will be refilled. They can be used over and over. It's the fun of it...and the fact that it is an innovative way of harvesting the honey.
Firstly people laughed at it...then they said it wouldn't work...then they said it had too many glitches...then they accepted that it worked....now they cavil at the cost.....but it is still fun!

I have not seen it reported anywhere but I suspect you will harvest honey with a more intense aroma using the Flow™Hive system. The honey will not have been thrashed around and fired through the air in an extractor and then all the entrained air bubbles rising up to the surface in a settling tank - that must make the honey lose some of its volatile aromatics.

Do you know if anybody has commented on an improved aroma with a Flow™Hive harvest?

CVB

 

[madasafish]

I have not seen it reported anywhere but I suspect you will harvest honey with a more intense aroma using the Flow™Hive system. The honey will not have been thrashed around and fired through the air in an extractor and then all the entrained air bubbles rising up to the surface in a settling tank - that must make the honey lose some of its volatile aromatics.

Do you know if anybody has commented on an improved aroma with a Flow™Hive harvest?

CVB

I crush and strain TBH honey and yes it has a more intense aroma..And if you just uncap and leave to drain, even better. But little of it and crush and strain with a diy'd press is a messy affair.

 

[Tremyfro]

There have been quite a few comments on the intense flavour of the honey extracted using Flow frames. As many of the beekeepers are new to beekeeping ...they may not notice this as they have no comparison from the normal extracting processes.
I think that as beekeepers become more confident using the Flow frames that we will hear about extraction of OSR honey too. I don't think you would have to wash them before reusing them...the bees clean them up and reseal. Then you could reharvest. In areas where there is a long period of nectar flows...there have been multiple extractions.

 

[Karol]

The microbiologist in me is full of trepidation about harvesting from Flow hives. The first harvest like as not will be fine. However, if the frames are not cleaned in between harvests then I'm concerned that subsequent harvests will have higher levels of microbiological contaminants especially nasties such as botulinum. Honey is hygroscopic and will absorb water if not sealed. Once any trace quantities of honey left in the collecting channels is diluted below the minimum inhibitory concentration it will support microbial/fungal growth. I'm not aware as yet of seeing any validation work to demonstrate that successive harvests from Flow hives conducted without sanitising the frames in between harvests are safe.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I don't know anything about the Flow hive so can't comment on it but a lot of us store our supers wet. They can get a little fermented but the bees deal with them and the honey is OK. Bees won't store honey in dirty cells. They are thoroughly cleaned.