First time Snelgrove attempt & inspection query ???

[shudderdun]

I have a colony at my out apiary that is doing fine, queen laying well, lots brood, eggs, play cups (no queen cells) etc, in fact hive was bursting, so decided to Snelgrove this hive as a swarm prevention, never tried it before, so am quite excited to see how it goes !

I started this on on the 19th May.
It is my intention to go up there tomorrow afternoon and perform the second stage of the operation, i.e. close gate 1 (trhs) open gate 2 (brhs) and 3 (tlhs), will return in the evening and close gate 1 (trhs)

Colony has two supers between both brood boxes.


QUESTION is ----

1) would it be OK at this stage to close all gates, lift the top box off, check to see if the queen is OK and laying down below (I did include a full frame of sealed brood and store when I first performed the split)

2) after putting all the boxes back in place, then see what is going on in the top box and then put everything back in sequence ?

Many thanks.

 

[thorn]

I see no reason why not.
My worry with the snelgrove method is that everything I've found on line says to put the supers between the two brood boxes. This leaves the upper box bursting with bees and with only the stores they've got in that box, while the foragers are being leached off. The advice when doing an artificial swarm is to share the food, and surely the advice should be the same here, rather than leaving the upper box without anything.

 

[shudderdun]

Thanks Thorn,
My reason wanting to check was, I did a Pagden swarm prevention control earlier this month, when it came to check how things were with Q, I could not find her yet there was a small patch of lava ? I was a bit baffled, but left things as they were, went back a few days later, lava had started to mature but no Q, looked in the supers which I had left on, she had squeezed through the QE and had filled the first super with eggs and had started on the second ! so opted for brood and a half !
Whould I be correct in culling any "more" mature QC's (I am on day seven now) in the top box in case they had been made of older lava ?

Thank you

 

[thorn]

Well, Shudderdun, it seems that you and I are the only two in this forum using the snelgrove method, and neither of us know what we're doing. Still, by the end of the summer we'll be the acknowledged experts.

 

[deemann1]

No there's a third here

 

[JonnyPicklechin]

I've also had a go but only once. the AS worked for me. I've actually used the board more frequently for introducing nasty bees to a calm hive.. I enjoy saying to myself, "where's the bleedin' Snelgrove board", as that's what I'm using it for...

Regarding AS methods, I use most frequently the NUC method and just assume the Snelgrove AS is a version of that just using a different hardware configuration ie if I'm short of NUCs or space.

To maintain a plan to assure a decent honey output, you have the added value of flyers bled back into the main hive and uptake of the foraging force. Remember to move brood from the top box back into the bottom one until the new queen is up and about, mated and laying.

 

[Wingy]

And a 4th, however not quite sure mine worked out as planned. I’ve now got a complete hive sat on top of another complete hive - doh!
It was my intention to use the new Q elsewhere and recombine the colony but ended up not needing the new Q but she is too nice to squash.
Just prepped the top hive this morning ready to move at the weekend.

 

[JonnyPicklechin]

Just realised that you've not really had your query about the old queen and food in the top box answered. I just had 2 frames of stores in there. Good question as whether it makes sense to feed syrup to the top box.

 

[Rooster007]

There are more here doing snelgrove AS I'm sure and I'm on my second year doing them with 4 successful splits now.

I did them because of space and once you get the hang of the gates then it seems to be a method that I like and works for me.

Last year I left both bb's alone and only inspected after the final back gate was open and I knew the Q would of hatched and laying.

This year, I've kept an eye on one of my splits and inspected the bottom box without problems.

I wouldn't close all the gates but just lift off the top bb along with the snelgrove board and then put to one side (maybe on top of the upturned roof), put the crown board on top and place the 2 supers on top of that.
You can then check the bottom bb and see how things are going.

I wouldn't worry about stores and let the bees get on with it. Think about what happens on a natural swarm and when the bees start a new colony, then they start with nothing at all.

The foragers will soon draw out on the bottom bb and bring in stores and the Q will start laying.
You don't need to find her but if you see young larvae or eggs then all will be OK.

Then put everything back together as it should be an stick to the gate opening and closing sequence.

Were there no QC's when you did the split and only cups?

You need to check the top box for QC's and just keep a max of 2, some might say 1 only but I've left 2 so 1 is a backup and after my splits this year (after more than 2 weeks) there is only 1 Q in the top bb and the other QC was sorted by the bees once the new Q hatched.
This years splits are now laying well top and bottom bb's.

What you will find though when you do the inspections and lift off the top bb is there are a lot flying bees around looking for their entrance but they will settle when everything is back together.

Also, the downside of the vertical splits (snelgrove) is when they start filling supers that there is a lot of heavy lifting to get to the bottom bb for inspections and the hive can get quite tall when you have supers on bottom and top bb's.

 

[Rooster007]

Just realised that you've not really had your query about the old queen and food in the top box answered. I just had 2 frames of stores in there. Good question as whether it makes sense to feed syrup to the top box.

Feeding syrup will encourage the bees to draw out fresh foundation but it depends if there is a flow on or not.
I guess they will do it naturally anyway.
Too much syrup and you will end up with supers filled with syrup when the main flow starts.
I fed only a small amount of syrup on my splits after the cold snap of weather we had a few weeks ago which happened just after the splits.

 

[Levitt53]

I've done plenty of Snelgrove splits too. I find it's a great method. You should have left the top box with enough food so personally I would just leave them to do their thing. It's part of the method to bleed off a lot of the forages but I tend to move the top box onto it's new location when the last door manoeuvre is planned.