Finding food during winter

[malawi2854]

Hello,
A quick question has just struck me whilst sitting at work not doing much...

I just wondered, how do bees find their stored food during the winter? Is it smell, or do they have to stumble on it?

I only ask, as I am not very patiently waiting for some fondant to arrive, and wondered how my bees will know where my lovely new fondant is, when I put it in?


Thanks!

 

[drstitson]

don't the bees at the edges of the cluster find it by default - whole cluster moves about on empty comb such that it always abutts against stores???

 

[malawi2854]

That is what I had always thought - but an another beekeeper informed me more recently that the cluster remains relatively central, and outer bees go out and effectively "forage" within their own hive, returning with a tummy full of food, and that is then shared with the rest of the cluster.

Who knows?!?!

 

[drstitson]

that doesn't explain why a colony short of stores will "burn" its way to the top of the frames.

 

[Dishmop]

I thought it was the bees in the centre of the cluster that went looking for food as they were warmer and had more energy to move.... then when they returned they rejoined the cluster on the outer edges. Everybody keeps moving to the middle.
However, in my observation hive, there isnt a "cluster" at all. More of an even spread over the lower frames,, possibly more at one end than the other.

 

[oliver90owner]

And the temperature is....?

RAB

 

[Dishmop]

And the temperature is....?

RAB

bit colder today......

 

[Vergilius]

That is what I had always thought - but an another beekeeper informed me more recently that the cluster remains relatively central, and outer bees go out and effectively "forage" within their own hive, returning with a tummy full of food, and that is then shared with the rest of the cluster.

Who knows?!?!

The cluster works around the hive consuming stores as it goes. If bees leave the cluster they are exposed to unbearable cold (for them), they often become comatose and then die...

Dishmop,

As RAB says the temperature of the room that your obs hive is in probably changes the bee's behaviour- particularly in winter. You may find that, with "active" rather than "clustered" bees, they may consume more stores. Plus the "2d" shape of your hive does not allow for a traditional cluster that is spread over quite a few frames...

So, IMO, that hive is a superb tool in summer, but I do not think that in winter it is a particularly good example of a "normal" colony in winter and, IMO, it is not particularly great for the bees trying to over-winter inside it.

Ben P

 

[TOBY-3652]

Like the meercat next to the hive

 

[Silly Bee]

bit colder today......

But indoors?

 

[Dishmop]

Oh, sorry, was RAB asking ME about the temperature?

Not up to his normal standards regarding stating exactly who what where and when questions are refering to.

My post was saying what I thought bees did regarding finding food in the hive, as that is what I have read in a book. Has anybody here seen if its the warm bees in the centre of the cluster that go and feed or the cold ones on the outer edges?


and then I went on to say and show what my bees in the observation hive are doing.... and obviously I am aware that what is happening in my observation hive is likely to be different to an outdoors hive, although not being able to see into my outside hives I couldnt say so with any certainty.
Obviously the obs hive is warmer because its inside but it does have cold air entering thro the entrance/exit tube. If I shut that tube off, the bees get confused because the temperature inside the hive rises (I assume) and they start rushing about and going down the tube as far as they can get.

When the entrance is in the normal open state, during the daytime, one of two bees will every so often venture down the tube to test the temperature and then go back and tell the others.... If its slightly warm but not warm enough for flytime, they will clear the rubbish that they have thrown down the tube from the hive.....
The colder the air coming into the hive, the further away the bees will move from the point that the air enters the hive. They form an arc above the hole in the floor.
Because of the cold air entering the interior of the hive is colder than the temperture of my living room.

 

[drstitson]

Internal temperature in my hives over the weekend was 12C whilst none were out flying.

 

[Dishmop]

Ben.

So, IMO, that hive is a superb tool in summer, but I do not think that in winter it is a particularly good example of a "normal" colony in winter and, IMO, it is not particularly great for the bees trying to over-winter inside it.

I wasnt saying that it was an example of a normal colony.

The observation colony was from a five frame nuc.

They were installed at the begining of September and if you look at this link you will see what was on the frames at that time.
http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6913

I didnt give then any feed until the end of October and then only for a couple of weeks.
Since then I would say that as far as I can see they have only consummed a quarter of the stores they had. I can see what I think is uncapped honey in some of the cells inthe lower frames. They certainly spend a lot of time with their heads buried in those cells. Or it may just be the shiny bottom of the cells.

All I give them is water.
So, all in all I think that when you consider how many people are stuffing huge bags of fondant into thier hives,,(although mostly as a safety measure) I think my observation hive stands a bloody good chance of surviving very well over the next what.... 12 weeks.

 

[drstitson]

of course it'll survive.

if stores get low you'll feed but the little ones just aren't needing as much energy - they may be in a cold room BUT think about it - ours out in the field have been maintaing internal temps around cluster of no less than 8C (i know mine are monitored) despite the ambient temperatures in last 4-6 weeks hitting double digit minus! we're talking AT LEAST 10 degrees differential.

its a breeze for your in comparison even with a little cold air coming in to ventilate.

 

[Dishmop]

I am hoping that Ben will tell us why he feels that in his opinion

it is not particularly great for the bees trying to over-winter inside it.

 

[Vergilius]

I am hoping that Ben will tell us why he feels that in his opinion

LOL. I am wrong as usual!!! I had the mis-conception that they would be in "summer mode" within the hive, and, as aresult, would consume more stores...

Ben P