Filtering wax

[Niv]

Tins used for pre-mixed marmalade give greater volume and stability than baked bean cans or tetrapak cartons; essential to use soft water with wax, and I use nappy liners for finest filtering.

Do you know if nappy filters give a finer filtering than J cloths?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Do you know if nappy filters give a finer filtering than J cloths?

I use neither - surgical lint is the baby for filtering

 

[Niv]

I use neither - surgical lint is the baby for filtering

Thanks, something like this? Fast Aid Absorbent Lint, 500g
Do you know of a good (i.e cheap) supplier?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Thanks, something like this? Fast Aid Absorbent Lint, 500g
Do you know of a good (i.e cheap) supplier?

A 500g roll is a lot of lint, but have a look on Amazon, and ebay, it's well worth shopping around - I didn't pay that much for my last lot.
Put the fluffy side of the lint on the inside of the tin so it helps catch all the dirt, one piece doesn't last long though, you'll be lucky to put much more than half a kilo through before it starts clogging up.
I usually filter it through something like a doubled up stocking first, then the Kilo blocks sit in store until they're needed. They then get the final filtering

 

[janetbee]

A slow cooker is good for cleaning wax before filtering. If you put a piece of old net curtain, butter muslin or similar in the cooker with the edges hanging over the cooker. When the wax and water has done its work the cloth is lifted out and brings lots of debris with it. Very fine stuff is on the bottom. The wax floats so is above the fine, heavy debris. A little vinegar in the water helps prevent saponification if you don't have soft water. I use a dedicated old slow cooker. You could clean it and use for cooking again but this is a bit of a fag.
The majority of my wax I melt down in a big steam cleaner. It is a large drum with a large mesh inner bucket. The steam is generated by a wallpaper steamer- having burnt out a couple of the smaller ones (by forgetting and they ran out of water) I now have a large model and also set the timer on my watch to remind me. The steam feeds in the top through a tight fitting lid.
The liquid wax and water comes out of the spout and is collected in a stainless steel bucket with a little water in the bottom to let the dirt settle at the bottom. There is still some dirt on the bottom of the wax block and I scrape it off and put the scrapings (if there is wax in them) back in the steamer. It is amazing how good the wax is, even from old black brood frames. These blocks of wax are good enough for exchange at Thornes.
Complete frames can go in but my preferred way of doing it is to cut out the comb from the frames, melt that down and then steam the empty frames separately. That way the majority of the dross is kept off the frames but they get a steaming to get rid of pathogens. I reuse the best of the frames but I break down the not so good ones and use the parts as kindling for my log burner. I bought a wheelie bin (not as big as the council bins) to keep them in out of the rain and out of the way-works well.
Don't throw wax away it is a valuable commodity. there are 2 ways of exchange at Thornes. One you get a straight swop wax for foundation. The second you pay for the wiring etc but it is said to be the best value method. The other foundation suppliers also exchange wax. Check out the current regs re Covid.

 

[janetbee]

Use wax soaked filters/cotton vests/etc to light your smoker or fire.

 

[Spadger]

I use an old slow cooker and J cloths.
Not got round to melting down the oval discs produced yet but they are fairly clean already, just a scrape of the base.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Also good for making hairy knees silky smooth

Lift thy eyes upwards

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Also good for making hairy knees silky smooth

Lift thy eyes upwards

If you dab it on where you seem imply @Gilberdyke John, then rip it off sharply, it won't just lift your eyes - they'll probably pop out the top of your head

 

[BigAshW]

The dangers of the yootoob 'expert' apart from the fact that bringing wax to the boil is downright dangerous (look for chip pan fires on yootoob - same cause and effect) even bringing wax up to near 100 degrees is going to cause it to seriously darken and degrade. There is no need raise the temperature of the wax to much higher than 75-80 degrees, and if you want it to keep its fresh colour and aroma, don't raise it to much higher than seventy celsius.

That's useful information thanks.

 

[understanding_bees]

Just a few days ago I wrote a somewhat detailed commentary (letter #20 in this discussion thread), on the method which I have used to purify beeswax. I wish to use this wax to make new foundation sheets for honey frames. Quite a number of people have added further comments to this discussion since I posted my letter.

A few of the responses have been relevant, such as Beeno’s comment (#23): “good point on the benefits of slow cooling. Makes sense.”

It is easy to find information on how highly valued beeswax is. The price no doubt varies depending on the country where the buyer or seller resides. Very clean wax, for use in cosmetic products, may bring the highest returns. I would rather use any reclaimed wax for making foundation sheets, rather than use it for candle making. I find it surprising how readily some people want to use it as fuel, “fire lighters”. Is it because people think that it is too difficult to recover wax from filter material? Whatever the case, there are much less expensive fire lighters available than those which are impregnated with beeswax.

Some of the comments in this discussion thread have admired clean blocks of wax, and some have been concerned with recovering very pale coloured wax. If these blocks of wax are destined for cosmetic products, then the effort required for multiple renderings may be worthwhile.

However there have been some who warn against the dangers of boiling wax. I certainly agree that wax rendering is an activity which is not appropriate in the kitchen. It would require a great deal of care to never have any spill of wax – whether that is bits of comb, or splashes, or drips of molten wax. There seems to be no shortage of comments about the difficulties which people have had in cleaning up after a wax spill!

So what are the facts? JenkinsBrynmair has made various comments, such as:
“bringing wax to the boil is downright dangerous”,
“even bringing wax up to near 100 degrees is going to cause it to seriously darken and degrade”,
“Boiling the wax will do it no favours at all.”

I believe that we can (and should) learn from the experience of others. But I also believe that we should not blindly follow comments which are demonstrably incorrect. In the pursuit of knowledge I have just performed experiments with some small samples of beeswax. I hasten to add that it was made by bees in Australia, and southern hemisphere beeswax may be different to that made by bees in the northern hemisphere. (I don’t actually believe that such a difference really exists!)

Is it dangerous to heat beeswax? The biggest danger would be the risk of fire. But let me ask a question about other fire risks we might have. Many people enjoy fish and chips. Many people cook potato chips, and a very usual way to cook potato chips is to deep fry them in very hot cooking oil or fat. The process of “deep frying” involves heating the cooking oil to far higher temperatures than the boiling point of water. We all know that it is dangerous to be burned by steam, or scalded by boiling water, so we are cautious, and work carefully with boiling water. Working with boiling water involves temperatures quite high enough to cause dangerous burns, and requires that we work with care. Working with very hot fat requires even more care, because of the higher temperatures, and because of the risk of fire if the fat is overheated.

I placed a small quantity (just a few grams) of beeswax into a metal can, with half a cup of water, and placed that can directly over a strongly burning wood fire in an outdoor fireplace. In a short while the wax was seen to melt as the water became hotter. The fire was burning strongly and caused the water to boil very vigorously, and the flames were licking around and above the open mouth of the metal can. (The can was about 100mm in diameter and about 65mm high, and had originally contained tuna.) I maintained the fire because I wanted to observe at what stage the wax might catch fire. While water remained in the can, boiling very vigorously, and flames continued licking above the can, the wax did not catch fire. It was only after all of the water had boiled away that the wax started to smoke, and then caught fire.

Heating wax in boiling water is probably at the same danger level as boiling water in an open saucepan.

And so I ask, is it true that “bringing wax to the boil is downright dangerous”?
If you asked this question of me, I would say that it is not dangerous, provided that there is a good quantity of water in the saucepan / pot together with the wax.

I would urge anyone who works with molten wax to use caution, to avoid injury. However, I did not “boil the wax”, because wax does not boil in the way that water does. It is true that I heated the wax in boiling water, but the wax did not get hotter than 100 degrees Celsius while water remained in the can. Yes, wax will burn if it is heated to higher temperatures; and no, you do not need to heat the wax above the boiling point of water if you wish to purify the wax.

In my next experiment I took a piece of virgin honeycomb which had been made by bees which I had collected as a swarm. I chose a freshly drawn piece of comb which was very white, and which had not yet been used to store nectar or pollen. I placed this piece of wax, with water, into a clean metal can (similar to the one I had just used). I heated this wax and water until the water was boiling vigorously, and I maintained the wax and water at this temperature for several minutes, before removing it from the fire. When it had cooled, the layer of wax on top of the water appeared just as white as it had been before it was melted.

And so I ask, is it true that “even bringing wax up to near 100 degrees is going to cause it to seriously darken and degrade”?

I have no doubt that if wax is heated for a very long time, or if it is heated above the temperature of boiling water, that it may darken in colour. I have no desire to make my wax darker by overheating it, and to date I have not found any evidence that it has become darker from being “cooked” by me.

For those who wish to lighten the colour of their wax, I have found information that when wax is exposed to sunlight it will become paler in colour. This information confirms what I had already experienced. Some time ago I made a quantity of plain wax sheets, using a smooth wooden paddle, before I made my silicone mould which produces embossed wax sheets. I have not used those plain sheets, and plan to reuse them to make embossed sheets. The interesting thing though is that these plain sheets, which were exposed to sunlight through the windows and skylight of my “honey house”, have been bleached and become appreciably whiter than the yellow colour they had been when I first made them.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Just a few days ago I wrote a somewhat detailed commentary (letter #20 in this discussion thread), on the method which I have used to purify beeswax. I wish to use this wax to make new foundation sheets for honey frames. Quite a number of people have added further comments to this discussion since I posted my letter.

A few of the responses have been relevant, such as Beeno’s comment (#23): “good point on the benefits of slow cooling. Makes sense.”

It is easy to find information on how highly valued beeswax is. The price no doubt varies depending on the country where the buyer or seller resides. Very clean wax, for use in cosmetic products, may bring the highest returns. I would rather use any reclaimed wax for making foundation sheets, rather than use it for candle making. I find it surprising how readily some people want to use it as fuel, “fire lighters”. Is it because people think that it is too difficult to recover wax from filter material? Whatever the case, there are much less expensive fire lighters available than those which are impregnated with beeswax.

Some of the comments in this discussion thread have admired clean blocks of wax, and some have been concerned with recovering very pale coloured wax. If these blocks of wax are destined for cosmetic products, then the effort required for multiple renderings may be worthwhile.

However there have been some who warn against the dangers of boiling wax. I certainly agree that wax rendering is an activity which is not appropriate in the kitchen. It would require a great deal of care to never have any spill of wax – whether that is bits of comb, or splashes, or drips of molten wax. There seems to be no shortage of comments about the difficulties which people have had in cleaning up after a wax spill!

So what are the facts? JenkinsBrynmair has made various comments, such as:
“bringing wax to the boil is downright dangerous”,
“even bringing wax up to near 100 degrees is going to cause it to seriously darken and degrade”,
“Boiling the wax will do it no favours at all.”

I believe that we can (and should) learn from the experience of others. But I also believe that we should not blindly follow comments which are demonstrably incorrect. In the pursuit of knowledge I have just performed experiments with some small samples of beeswax. I hasten to add that it was made by bees in Australia, and southern hemisphere beeswax may be different to that made by bees in the northern hemisphere. (I don’t actually believe that such a difference really exists!)

Is it dangerous to heat beeswax? The biggest danger would be the risk of fire. But let me ask a question about other fire risks we might have. Many people enjoy fish and chips. Many people cook potato chips, and a very usual way to cook potato chips is to deep fry them in very hot cooking oil or fat. The process of “deep frying” involves heating the cooking oil to far higher temperatures than the boiling point of water. We all know that it is dangerous to be burned by steam, or scalded by boiling water, so we are cautious, and work carefully with boiling water. Working with boiling water involves temperatures quite high enough to cause dangerous burns, and requires that we work with care. Working with very hot fat requires even more care, because of the higher temperatures, and because of the risk of fire if the fat is overheated.

I placed a small quantity (just a few grams) of beeswax into a metal can, with half a cup of water, and placed that can directly over a strongly burning wood fire in an outdoor fireplace. In a short while the wax was seen to melt as the water became hotter. The fire was burning strongly and caused the water to boil very vigorously, and the flames were licking around and above the open mouth of the metal can. (The can was about 100mm in diameter and about 65mm high, and had originally contained tuna.) I maintained the fire because I wanted to observe at what stage the wax might catch fire. While water remained in the can, boiling very vigorously, and flames continued licking above the can, the wax did not catch fire. It was only after all of the water had boiled away that the wax started to smoke, and then caught fire.

Heating wax in boiling water is probably at the same danger level as boiling water in an open saucepan.

And so I ask, is it true that “bringing wax to the boil is downright dangerous”?
If you asked this question of me, I would say that it is not dangerous, provided that there is a good quantity of water in the saucepan / pot together with the wax.

I would urge anyone who works with molten wax to use caution, to avoid injury. However, I did not “boil the wax”, because wax does not boil in the way that water does. It is true that I heated the wax in boiling water, but the wax did not get hotter than 100 degrees Celsius while water remained in the can. Yes, wax will burn if it is heated to higher temperatures; and no, you do not need to heat the wax above the boiling point of water if you wish to purify the wax.

In my next experiment I took a piece of virgin honeycomb which had been made by bees which I had collected as a swarm. I chose a freshly drawn piece of comb which was very white, and which had not yet been used to store nectar or pollen. I placed this piece of wax, with water, into a clean metal can (similar to the one I had just used). I heated this wax and water until the water was boiling vigorously, and I maintained the wax and water at this temperature for several minutes, before removing it from the fire. When it had cooled, the layer of wax on top of the water appeared just as white as it had been before it was melted.

And so I ask, is it true that “even bringing wax up to near 100 degrees is going to cause it to seriously darken and degrade”?

I have no doubt that if wax is heated for a very long time, or if it is heated above the temperature of boiling water, that it may darken in colour. I have no desire to make my wax darker by overheating it, and to date I have not found any evidence that it has become darker from being “cooked” by me.

For those who wish to lighten the colour of their wax, I have found information that when wax is exposed to sunlight it will become paler in colour. This information confirms what I had already experienced. Some time ago I made a quantity of plain wax sheets, using a smooth wooden paddle, before I made my silicone mould which produces embossed wax sheets. I have not used those plain sheets, and plan to reuse them to make embossed sheets. The interesting thing though is that these plain sheets, which were exposed to sunlight through the windows and skylight of my “honey house”, have been bleached and become appreciably whiter than the yellow colour they had been when I first made them.

Well, you're the expert it seems, I've only got my time at the fire ground at South Shields fire school watching the effects of overheating flammable liquids during my advanced firefighting training, and my two National Honey show blue ribbons for my wax to go with my Two Royal Welsh gold medals for my plain wax cake

 

[pargyle]

Well, you're the expert it seems, I've only got my time at the fire ground at South Shields fire school watching the effects of overheating flammable liquids during my advanced firefighting training, and my two National Honey show blue ribbons for my wax to go with my Two Royal Welsh gold medals for my plain wax cake

Yes .. I did the course at the naval fire fighting establishment in Portsmouth... putting out a chip pan fire with a blanket is pretty scary ... what is more scary is the effect of trying to put it out with water ... I would caution anyone about overheating beeswax by any means and absolutely not over any sort of naked flame. Some really dangerous suggestions in the post above ...

My wife's cousin spent months having skin grafts in the USA when he foolishly tried to add some olive oil to some steaks he was cooking on a barbecue.. the resultant flash fire left him with massive burns to his arms chest and face ...

Be warned folks ... some posts should come with a health warning...

 

[understanding_bees]

Well, you're the expert it seems, I've only got my time at the fire ground at South Shields fire school watching the effects of overheating flammable liquids during my advanced firefighting training, and my two National Honey show blue ribbons for my wax to go with my Two Royal Welsh gold medals for my plain wax cake

It does not really matter how many Blue Ribbons you have. And thank you for acknowledging my expertise.
You will have noticed that my comments were not just about beeswax. I also talked about other combustible material, namely cooking oil. Facts are facts. The fact is that I have been unable to get my melted beeswax in boiling water to burn, even though I actively tried to provide conditions where it might catch fire. I had a vigorously burning wood fire, with flames well above the level of the open mouth of the can which contained the wax and boiling water. Yes, the beeswax did eventually catch fire, but only after all of the water had been boiled away. The moral of the story might be to make sure that you let the water boil away

**** Correction: I inadvertently left out the word "don't". Sorry about that. I meant to say:

The moral of the story might be to make sure that you don't let the water boil away

 

[Erichalfbee]

But you can bleach wax quite safely in the summer sunshine

 

[Erichalfbee]

And another piece of advice re doing ANYTHING with wax. Stay out of the kitchen. A wife’s wrath burns as much as hot beeswax and for a darn sight longer

 

[pargyle]

The moral of the story might be to make sure that you let the water boil away

When giving any advice you have to cater for the lowest common denominator...not everyone is endowed with sufficient common sense to recognise that you should not let the wax in the water boil dry... Like I said... sone posts ...even from EXPERTS should be accompanied by a health warning ...

 

[understanding_bees]

I would caution anyone about overheating beeswax by any means and absolutely not over any sort of naked flame. Some really dangerous suggestions in the post above ...

Philip, please read my post again, and read it carefully!
I know that a wax fire would be rather dangerous, and probably of the same danger level as other flammable liquid fires.
I hope that everyone who uses cooking oil to do "deep fry" cooking has an appropriate fire extinguisher in their kitchen. You are quite correct in saying that it would be very dangerous to attempt to extinguish a wax fire, or an oil fire, with water.
BUT, cooking beeswax in boiling water is not the same as trying to extinguish a wax fire with water.
If you did not read what I said in my post, then I will repeat it here for you to read it now:

In my experiment with a beeswax and boiling water mixture, over a strongly burning wood fire, and flames licking above the level of the open mouth of the container of beeswax and boiling water, I was unable to get the beeswax to burn while water remained in the container.

I would not advise anyone to overheat beeswax either, but beeswax in boiling water has not been overheated.

 

[understanding_bees]

When giving any advice you have to cater for the lowest common denominator...not everyone is endowed with sufficient common sense to recognise that you should not let the wax in the water boil dry... Like I said... sone posts ...even from EXPERTS should be accompanied by a health warning ...

Thank you for pointing out that I managed to leave out one very important little word - "don't". I am sorry that I did not proof-read my comment carefully enough. I meant to say, and I am sure that you understood it, was:

The moral of the story might be to make sure that you "don't" let the water boil away.

 

[understanding_bees]

But you can bleach wax quite safely in the summer sunshine

I made this discovery quite "by accident", and had not known it previously. I found reference to the bleaching of wax by sunshine just very recently, and the article suggested flaking or grating the wax to expose a larger surface area of wax to the sunshine. It would seem that sheets of wax, formed on a wooden paddle as done by Tim Rowe, provide an easy way to produce a large surface area, with the added convenience that these sheets of wax are much easier to pick up than grated flakes of wax.
Dani, do you know exactly what the mechanism is by which beeswax is bleached by sunlight?
Is it possible that it is just the pigments from pollen that are being bleached?