Fermented honey

[fizzle]

Wut do?

Jokes aside, what do with supers that have half fermented honey?

 

[Wilco]

Rinse them out and make mead with the liquid, see if the bees will eat it, see if it's still acceptable to sell as 'baker's honey'.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Wut do?

Jokes aside, what do with supers that have half fermented honey?

you have full supers, or just extracted ones stored 'wet' over winter?

 

[Finman]

I spray water into cells with garden hoast and after diluting I shake the stuff out.

I would not sell or give fermented honey to anybody. Bakers honey does not mean, that it can be fermented.

 

[fizzle]

They are extracted frames with mostly crystalised honey and a couple of frames that had runny honey, i.e. not capped. Will the bees use the honey?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

They are extracted frames with mostly crystalised honey and a couple of frames that had runny honey, i.e. not capped. Will the bees use the honey?

yes, chuck them back on when the time comes to give them more room

 

[Erichalfbee]

Keep it for the bees. I store my supers wet and they are always a bit fermented by the spring.

 

[fizzle]

I know its frowned upon but I was thinking to open feed them by dropping supers in front of hives. I'm thinking iIts still early for other robber bees and wasps to be around. If I put the supers on later will they not just recap the crystalised honey?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

know its frowned upon but I was thinking to open feed them by dropping supers in front of hives. I'm thinking iIts still early for other robber bees and wasps to be around. If I put the supers on later will they not just recap the crystalised honey?

Still very bad practice to open feed, regardless of the time of year.
The bees will clean out all the cells before refilling with fresh honey. I've done this more than once.

 

[fizzle]

Ok, thanks.

 

[drex]

I know its frowned upon but I was thinking to open feed them by dropping supers in front of hives. I'm thinking iIts still early for other robber bees and wasps to be around. If I put the supers on later will they not just recap the crystalised honey?

Never too early for robbing. About 2 weeks ago I cleared out one of my overwintering nucs, which had died. I forgot to block the entrance. A few days later, it was sunny and the bees were busy robbing the few stores left.

 

[ericbeaumont]

Bakers honey does not mean, that it can be fermented.

It does.

see if it's still acceptable to sell as 'baker's honey'.

It is.

In Schedule 1 of the Honey Regulations (England) 2015 eight compositional criteria of honey are given. Number 8 is relevant, but especially number 9:

Compositional criteria
8. It must not—
(a)have any foreign tastes or odours;
(b)have begun to ferment;
(c)have an artificially changed acidity;
(d)have been heated in such a way that the natural enzymes have been either destroyed or significantly inactivated.

9. Paragraph 8 does not apply to baker’s honey.

One limit is prescribed for baker's honey:
2 Moisture content
(a) all honey except for honey specified in paragraph (b), (c) or (d) not more than 20%
(b) honey from heather (Calluna) not more than 23%
(c) baker's honey except for baker's honey from heather (Calluna) not more than 23%
(d) baker's honey from heather (Calluna)

From this you will see that baker's honey must have a moisture content between 20 and 23%, and may have foreign odours or taste, have begun to ferment, have an artifically changed activity, or have been heated in such a way blah, blah.

I include in the mix any heated drainings from cappings and it sells well at market (£7/400g, £18/kg) at about 12% below honey price, but you'll need to trot out a short-hand story every time a customer picks it up.

Most use it in the ordinary way, even though the regs. require the label to state intended for cooking only, and demand is consistent. If it sells out I remind them that I don't ferment it on purpose.

 

[Finman]

Go for it, if you want to get reputation to your honey business.... oh dear....

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

From this you will see that baker's honey must have a moisture content between 20 and 23%

no it doesn't say that at all, it can have a moisture content a lot less, it doesn't specify a lower moisture content

I include in the mix any heated drainings from cappings and it sells well at market (£7/400g, £18/kg) at about 12% below honey price, but you'll need to trot out a short-hand story every time a customer picks it up.

Just because you can convince the rather more gullible than usual punters your way that this is acceptable - doesn't mean it's right.

 

[ericbeaumont]

it can have a moisture content a lot less

If moisture was a lot lower (at least below 20%) fermentation wouldn't occur and it could be sold as honey at a higher price.

The regs. stipulate that when sold as honey the moisture must be below 20 and that as baker's it cannot go above 23. By deduction, baker's exists between 20 and 23%.

Just because you can convince the rather more gullible than usual punters your way that this is acceptable - doesn't mean it's right.

Consumers are not gullible (nor do I see them as punters) and invariably they're open to broadening their knowledge of food production.

I take a refractometer and show them how to read it, display the Haynes Manual for kids to read and frames and smokers to sniff, and wear a beesuit when I can - and yes, I'll tell (briefly, I've got it down to 29 seconds) the story of nectar turning to honey and enzymes and moisture reduction by convection, and the 20% bit leading to fermentation.

Is that selling or educating?

My aim is not only to sell but to open consumers' eyes to the natural world, to pollinators and the source of real food, and a wide range of hive produce does that better than the bog standard in a jar. I also sell comb honey and propolis (which mystify all but those of European origin, who are knowledgeable) and the bonus of such fringe products is the broadening of the consumer mind.

You pass judgement by the use of the words right and acceptable, but they're not defined in the Honey Regulations; my produce is.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The regs. stipulate that when sold as honey the moisture must be below 20 and that as baker's it cannot go above 23. By deduction, baker's exists between 20 and 23%.

rubbish - it means no such thing I'm afraid your erroneous theory/'deduction' holds no water whatsoever.
Nowhere in the regulations does it say that baker's honey must have a water content higher than 20% only that it cannot exceed 23%

 

[JamezF]

Surely if honey with less than 20% moisture content had been excessively heated then it could be sold as "baker's honey", but not just "honey"?

James

 

[fizzle]

I'm just a hobby beekeeper and give away the honey for free to family and friends but interesting conversation nonetheless.

I'm hoping the bees will clean out the frames and I will keep a few aside for the heather season this year or maybe its better to let them draw fresh frames when on the heather?

 

[Curly green finger's]

I'm just a hobby beekeeper and give away the honey for free to family and friends but interesting conversation nonetheless.

I'm hoping the bees will clean out the frames and I will keep a few aside for the heather season this year or maybe its better to let them draw fresh frames when on the heather?

If there's a good flow they will draw comb on heather but use drawn to start with I selected the same years drawn comb white comb comb that hasn't had brood in, but if you only have older then use that.

 

[Wilco]

If moisture was a lot lower (at least below 20%) fermentation wouldn't occur and it could be sold as honey at a higher price.

The regs. stipulate that when sold as honey the moisture must be below 20 and that as baker's it cannot go above 23. By deduction, baker's exists between 20 and 23%.


Consumers are not gullible (nor do I see them as punters) and invariably they're open to broadening their knowledge of food production.

I take a refractometer and show them how to read it, display the Haynes Manual for kids to read and frames and smokers to sniff, and wear a beesuit when I can - and yes, I'll tell (briefly, I've got it down to 29 seconds) the story of nectar turning to honey and enzymes and moisture reduction by convection, and the 20% bit leading to fermentation.

Is that selling or educating?

My aim is not only to sell but to open consumers' eyes to the natural world, to pollinators and the source of real food, and a wide range of hive produce does that better than the bog standard in a jar. I also sell comb honey and propolis (which mystify all but those of European origin, who are knowledgeable) and the bonus of such fringe products is the broadening of the consumer mind.

You pass judgement by the use of the words right and acceptable, but they're not defined in the Honey Regulations; my produce is.

In what form do you sell the propolis?