Feeding fondant

[SwiftOtter]

Hi everyone I'm just getting ready to put my hive to bed for winter, this is my first year. During the last inspection (late Sept) they had about 6 brood frames of stores, no supers this year since I received the bees quite late. Since then rubbish weather and a family bereavement have meant that I was unable to carry out another inspection, but I have continued feeding syrup until recently. I have to admit I have no real reference to judge the stores by hefting due to inexperience, and I am reluctant to open the hive up now. It's a nice day now, but frosty! I have a pound of fondant and some blocks of Ecotherm (an equivalent to kingspan). I was planning to fill a super with the insulation (sorry I should have mentioned the OMF) and place the fondant still in its bag with slits in a plastic container over one of the slots in the crown board. I really don't want to open it up if I can avoid it. Does this sound reasonable?

Thanks
Chris

 

[oliver90owner]

Wait until later in the day when the bees are flying and have a quick look in. Simple. little time open. Just check for stores on outer frames and towards the middle without disturbing any frames where brood might still be (where the bees are is a good indication).

If full (often new white cappings on the shoulders of the frames), just leave and get used to the hefting weight at any opportunity for future reference. If very light, maybe remove the outer frame(s) and dummy/divide to restrict the bees and to insulate them from the winter weather. Kingspan or EPS behind a sealing divider is my method.

Just lifting the frames a little should give an indication of how full they are without removing them.

A pound of fondant is neither here nor there. I only feed a kilo at a time in a take-away container (covered in cling film with a slash across, for access, and placed over the feed hole) if they need it in about February or later. No exact science except they must not use up all the stores! Replacements are easily provided if required, by sliding the next one into position. The cling film prevents the whole lot sticking to the feeder board and the see-through containers (no lid) are eay to assess. Insulation around and over the container is standard and especially important for weaker colonies.

Doing it now will give them the best chance of survival. You should, of course have some idea of how much sugar has been fed to them so far.

They will 'go to bed' when they want to. You have no say in the matter. But not knowing the status (size and amount of stores) is crazy. A small colony in a cavern is not conducive to good wintering, even if there is fondant available.

 

[Outlander]

Hi Swift i had a colony that had been robbed out. When hefted this hive it felt so very lite but the others took effort. next time you do a split get the weight fixed into your head the felt about the weight of my robbed hive. With my kingspan i cut out a bit big enough to except a plastic Chinese food container. cut out can be replaced when feeding is over. So fondant straight onto crownboard then kingspan then roof. Hope this helps.

 

[SwiftOtter]

I was planning on cutting a hole in a layer of insulation to match a plastic box I have, i'll take some clingfim too as suggested. It's warming up nicely now so should be fine in the early afternoon I guess. I have fed 25litres of heavy syrup since mid August, when I acquired the colony, with a two week break when administering Apiguard. The colony has grown well. So I think a lot of that has gone into building up the brood strength rather than just being put into stores. I have read that you want 35lb of stores, and that a full frame is 5lb so that would equal 7 full frames, which I am sure that they don't have. I will add the fondant I have but it seems from your response that I should get some more, do you think one of the supermarkets in house bakeries would supply it, there aren't any of the small bakers everyone recommends nearby and a 12.5kg block of the sort you can get elsewhere seems a bit excessive for one colony (although might be getting another in a bit).

 

[Outlander]

I was planning on cutting a hole in a layer of insulation to match a plastic box I have, i'll take some clingfim too as suggested. It's warming up nicely now so should be fine in the early afternoon I guess. I have fed 25litres of heavy syrup since mid August, when I acquired the colony, with a two week break when administering Apiguard. The colony has grown well. So I think a lot of that has gone into building up the brood strength rather than just being put into stores. I have read that you want 35lb of stores, and that a full frame is 5lb so that would equal 7 full frames, which I am sure that they don't have. I will add the fondant I have but it seems from your response that I should get some more, do you think one of the supermarkets in house bakeries would supply it, there aren't any of the small bakers everyone recommends nearby and a 12.5kg block of the sort you can get elsewhere seems a bit excessive for one colony (although might be getting another in a bit).

Not sure if you can get it in smaller quantities but it will last along time and if your bees need it to survive maybe spending out £13 to £16 for 12.5 kg is not a lot to ask.

 

[Into the lions den]

25 litres is an enormous amount of syrup. Even in home made syrup its still in the vicinity 30Kg of stores weight..............66lb................more than you can get into a BS deep. Something not right there.

Even our biggest hives get only 10 litres (14Kg) of stores and that last them till March at least, and often no more feeding till next autumn. I suspect from the above you are being over cautious and risk over feeding, plugging out the colony and leaving no open space in the core of the cluster, and the bees like to have that as many bees in the cluster in winter are actually head first inside cells.

Also some disquiet about apparently only covering 6 frames...........and having received the bees 'quite late'. How late is 'quite late'? Bee colonies sold in autumn are a fraction of the value of those sold in spring, and many experienced hands will not buy at all in autumn unless they are very cheap. We used to only sell nucs prior to 1st August, as the attrition rate of nucs sold after that date in the winter ahead was such that you risked getting a bad reputation for your stock dying. Any later sales were always done subject to very clear warnings as to the winter problems that might lie ahead (which the buyer had to acknowledge), and at a deep or very deep discount.

 

[SwiftOtter]

Right if it keeps well I might as well get some, I see what you mean.

I received a colony late in the year (July) due to poor weather, although I ordered it in April, which then fared very badly according to the bee inspector the colony had most likely killed the queen since she had been laying poorly. I mentioned this to the supplier I bought the colony from and he replaced them but it took until Early august to get this done. I considered waiting until the following spring but asked around and most people seemed to think it was worth trying. They have fared very well and have expanded their numbers considerably as well as drawing out quite a bit of new comb. Could this explain where some of the lost syrup may have gone? I accept what you are saying about me probably being over cautious - I think that all new beekeepers are guilty of that to some extent! And I will have another look at my notes, perhaps I have made a mistake with my figures. thanks for all the assistance.
Chris

 

[itma]

Roughly when did you fit the entrance reducer?


Insulation - cut a frame to go round your tub, so that you can put a sheet over the frame and tub.

Tub - a *clear* tub will minimise the disruption to the bees of your checking to see when/if more is needed.

 

[SwiftOtter]

Roughly when did you fit the entrance reducer?
Actually it has always been fitted, to begin with it was a small colony so I never got the chance to remove it. It does have a single bee setting as it were, I was going to change to that when I fit the mouse guard next week.

Insulation - cut a frame to go round your tub, so that you can put a sheet over the frame and tub.
This is what I've done - the insulation board I got was 25mm thick so I have made a total of five layers, with two with a hole cut out for a clear plastic tub.

Tub - a *clear* tub will minimise the disruption to the bees of your checking to see when/if more is needed.

I tried to check the stores in the hive this afternoon but it was so firmly stuck down (make that welded shut) with brace comb in the middle that I was really worried about causing a lot of disturbance by ripping it open. Obviously I should have kept it clear but circumstances prevented that over the last month. I hefted it and although I don't have a lot of experience of this, I ship
heavy boxes for a living and I reckon it was about 18 - 20kg.

Thanks
Chris