Feeding Candy

[martynhyde]

We are told that when preparing syrup for feeding, the solution should not be boiled, as it produces elements harmful to the bees. How come then that candy is acceptable?

 

[Erichalfbee]

It's not boiled at 100˚C

 

[enrico]

Depends, modern day candy is fondant type and is fine.
Yesteryear candy that we used to use was sugar water boiled until it became hard ball, at which time you let it set. Used to feed my bees this every year with no obvious signs of harm! But......I now use fondant!
E

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yes,
Commercial bakers fondant is made mechanically by pulverising sugar and blending in glucose syrup

 

[itma]

We are told that when preparing syrup for feeding, the solution should not be boiled, as it produces elements harmful to the bees. How come then that candy is acceptable?

For the same reasons as not boiling syrup (HMF), it isn't a good idea to make fondant (US 'candy') by boiling.

As Erica mentions above, commercially fondant is made by mixing icing sugar with syrup. If you try this at home, it may burn out your kitchen mixer!
Commercial ("Bako") bakers' plain white fondant isn't very expensive (around £1/kg for the 12.5kg box) and stores well enough from year to year.
If you actually NEED fondant now, you will likely need a few kg (per hive) before nectar income reliably exceeds consumption.

IMHO, there are better things to do with one's DIY time than making fondant. The bought-in stuff is pretty cheap, no-fuss, not time or energy consuming and a better product than most folk can make. A no-brainer from my viewpoint.

 

[Goran]

"No brain, no pain"
If you can organize with friend beeks. One buy mixer, other machine for icing sugar, some buy for flatening. And in company more easier to work, all pass in laugh and "beekeeper" stories. And at the end all get enough fondants, cheaper and better quality than any bought ones.
At my place some said that discovered some fondant producers put more starch in fondants just to get them heavier and in protein patties less protein content than declared, or false color to you think there are proteins in it..

I posted earlier such pics, but were lost..

 

[Hivemaker.]

Goran...where did you buy your sugar grinder from?

 

[Goran]

Goran...where did you buy your sugar grinder from?

It is of my mentor. He bought it if I recall right in Croatia, but produced in Serbia. Around 600 euros cost. I think 180kg per hour declared, fine granulated.

http://www.radomed.net/?products=mlin-za-secer

If this link is inappropriate ( commercial), please delete it.

 

[drstitson]

"all pass in laugh and "beekeeper" stories."

as opposed to arguments about weights and %s like in the UK.

 

[martynhyde]

No one really answered my question re: home made candy,although one person did say he has used it with no ill effect.

 

[itma]

No one really answered my question re: home made candy,although one person did say he has used it with no ill effect.

You asked "how come it is acceptable?"
It is only acceptable to those that don't realise what they are doing! (Or those who think the tiny cost saving is worth the risk.)

Hopefully, there's little risk of actually killing the colony, but HMF isn't good for them.

With syrup making, it is quite simply that there is no need to boil, and not even any advantage. Just the HMF downside and the energy wastage.

 

[victor meldrew]

If mixing with water , which dissolves sugar , what is the advantage of powdered sugar over granulated ?


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[Goran]

If mixing with water , which dissolves sugar , what is the advantage of powdered sugar over granulated ?


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Try it and it will reveal itself..

( it is fondant, not syrup..)

 

[victor meldrew]

Always one for a challenge I'll have a go ! Warm water of course but not a temperature evoking the production of hmf


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[For want of a better word]

Always one for a challenge I'll have a go ! Warm water of course but not a temperature evoking the production of hmf


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Just wondering... don't you need an acid present to form an aldehyde ( HMF) with sugar ( fructose)?
http://airborne.co.nz/hmf.shtml
Nos da

 

[Goran]

Just in short how we do it, inverted syrup warmed ( right before adding to mixture to 70-80celsius) and poured into ( baker) mixer, ( I add own honey also, black locust last batch, next time spring honey), then while it spins adding powder sugar till getting fondant of desired elasticity.
Inverted syrup I make at about 60celsius ( while I can hold finger in it..) day before ( citric acid). But I believe ensimatic is better, even recently I heard some praises for acid inverted by one lecturer. Cause of that I believe if proper done, both should be OK. With citric acid I had no problems and these days will do another batch of it..

 

[oliver90owner]

Fondant made this way is litte different than that which is dissolved (hot) and crystallised? Fondant from solution relies on small separate crystals forming (the reason why it needs to be stirred as it cools). Fondant made from the cold simply replicates the small crystal situation. Nothing more than that. Sugar will not make an 88% concentrated solution in the cold, so forget the idea of much of it dissolving in the water.

 

[Finman]

We are told that when preparing syrup for feeding, the solution should not be boiled, as it produces ..?

No one had told that. And why to boil syrup, because you get syrup in lower temperatures.

IT is possible that fondant sellers deliver such propaganda and want to sell 6 times mite expencive Sugar.


Pour syryp into combs and bees get it. 1:2 and not 1:1 .

 

[TooBee...]

Hi,
didn't want to start a new Thread when this one dealt with what I wanted to know.

On the internet and pretty much all* bee websites that discuss making Bee Fondant, all say you heat the sugar / water mix up to around 114c, but from what I gather from this Forum the belief is that heating sugar above 100c will create HMF in it, which apparently is bad for the bees.

Are other beeks not aware of this (I've come across beeks saying to add Cream of Tartare which I'm sure I've read is bad for the bees), do old habits die hard, or are we over-reacting?

At what temperature does HMF occur, or does it only occur if we add an acid during heating, or if we heat for too long.

Does anyone here make their own Bee Fondant but heat above 100c. And those of you that buy Fondant (from Bakers), how sure are you or how do you know that they pulverize the sugar, meaning they use powdered sugar instead of heating the sugar / water mix - surely it would produce a better fondant to work with etc. from a baking point of view?
And IF they use powdered sugar, they would powder it in large batches, which would mean that they would need to add an anti-caking additive, which I think brings me back to Cream of Tartare?

* I found one bee website that suggested using powdered sugar mixed with a small amount of water, but they were adamant that this was not fondant, and it was not as good for the bees for a winter feed, the heated (above 100c) sugar / water mix, which became Bee Fondant, was claimed to be much better as the heating broke down the sugars, making it easier for the bees to digest, this is why it is best for emergency food, so they said.

 

[Goran]

For me the very best fondants ever are which are made by Goran. So for You should be which are made by " TooBee".
In few of my previous posts you can see how is made at our place. So far we are in process of getting plastic bags, sugar we have, machines are ready, still little early. I assume will wait end of November, " Board" still didn't hold a meeting, we are a bit easy..