Far NW UK newbie questions

[Hairy]

Hi folks, first post

I am just beginning on my journey to being really confused by the world of beekeeping, no experience, some reading done, one day course booked, short conversations with ex-beekeepers from down south only.

Here on the Isle of Lewis I am surrounded by heather moor mostly, with some crofts a few of which have animals, not many trees overall, not many people have a planted garden. Close to the sea, it's quite windy, can be quite wet but hardly ever below freezing. No farms nearby so no chemicals etc., probably no lack of pollination for what there is, I would like some honey There are I'm told some hives kept on Lewis and Harris but not nearby and I've yet to discover them.

There are some pine trees nearby and I've planted a lot of willow, some fruit trees and bushes, and crocus, snowdrops, many other things to some degree most of which survive.

If I end up with a pair of hives I have a spot that is in the sun most of the day but out of the direct wind and away from anybody.

There are wasps, bumbles appeared about a week ago, and there are some tiny black bee looking things emerging from the ground where they spent last summer. It would not be good for introduced honeybees to out compete what's here naturally if that is a thing?

I've been told I need to put the hives in a shed because the occasional driving rain will make them too wet, or I was thinking plastic (not polystyrene which I wouldn't think are sturdy enough?) hives would be good?

Will I just have to get some bees to see if there is enough variety of flowers year round to leave me some honey at year end, or should I spend a few years planting more to give them plus current occupants a better chance?

All advice appreciated

 

[madasafish]

Scottish beekeepers built a hive specifically for your surroundings,- the Smith Hive iirc.

The Scottish Beekeepers Association might have be able to help in such a specialised area as yours

 

[Boston Bees]

Buy good poly hives, paint them, and don't worry about them getting wet. Keeping bees warm and dry is what poly is good for.

Don't buy Smith hives, which are wood. Anyway, there's nothing inherently better about them for Scottish beekeepers than for anyone else. They are designed for being easier than wooden national hives for moving bees to heather, which isn't what you are going to be doing (and poly is good for that anyway).

Regarding forage, you can't possibly plant enough yourself for honey bees, unless you have 100 acres. Either there's enough in the area or there isn't. I suspect they'll be OK even if you don't get huge honey harvests. Just give it a try.

 

[Hairy]

Thank you the replies

I wasn't concerned about poly hives getting wet, rather than whatever hive might get used will need strapping and weighing down for when it will get battered by the wind. A sheltered location only means out of most of it unless I put it next to the telly
If hives are put inside a four foot high enclosure the wind will go over them, but will take them up unless strapped and weighed down. Will straps eat into a poly hive as it's wobbled in the wind, or are they more than just poly externally and at joints do you think? The last bit of wind we had took a wheelie bin over a neighbours house for instance, not untypical.

If I introduce a swarm of honey bees and it turns out there isn't enough food for them even if I do plant a couple of dozen more flowering things (no I don't have 100 acres! , does that mean I will have starved out what's here already?

What does happen to the local bees when someone starts up as a beekeeper?

 

[pargyle]

Thank you the replies

I wasn't concerned about poly hives getting wet, rather than whatever hive might get used will need strapping and weighing down for when it will get battered by the wind. A sheltered location only means out of most of it unless I put it next to the telly
If hives are put inside a four foot high enclosure the wind will go over them, but will take them up unless strapped and weighed down. Will straps eat into a poly hive as it's wobbled in the wind, or are they more than just poly externally and at joints do you think? The last bit of wind we had took a wheelie bin over a neighbours house for instance, not untypical.

If I introduce a swarm of honey bees and it turns out there isn't enough food for them even if I do plant a couple of dozen more flowering things (no I don't have 100 acres! , does that mean I will have starved out what's here already?

What does happen to the local bees when someone starts up as a beekeeper?

You build sturdy stands and if you are not going to move them set the legs in concrete like you would fence posts. Poly hives are great for colder locations - keeps them toasty in winter - a hive strap over the whole hive and anchored to a sturdy stand that is well set in the ground will withstand anything that a nomal gale will throw at them. If you aim for two hives you can make a stand that holds both hives next to each other which add to the stability. If you strap the hives down firmly they can't wobble about and there is no damage to the poly..

Hives like Payne Bees poly hives are a single moulding so the only joints are between floor, supers and the crown board.

In your location I would keep an empty super on top of the crown board and fill it with Kingspan/Celotex insulation material to retain the maximum heat in the colony (even in summer this helps) and it will reduce any chance of condensation.

You are in a pretty unique location that far north but we have a member on here from Finland in Helsinki and he manages bees even further North - a honey crop is very much about what forage is available but you will be surprised what the bees will find if it's available. Good luck .. stick around I'm sure some of our Scottish members will have much to add ...

 

[pargyle]

If I introduce a swarm of honey bees and it turns out there isn't enough food for them even if I do plant a couple of dozen more flowering things (no I don't have 100 acres! , does that mean I will have starved out what's here already?

What does happen to the local bees when someone starts up as a beekeeper?

It's unlikely to have any serious impact if it's only a couple of hives... there were some beekeepers on Lewis already, one near Stornaway - so you need to find out where they are. There is a concern that varroa gets introduced to the Islands, some of which are varroa free - I don't know if Lewis is in this favourable situation but, if it is, you must not introduce bees that will have varroa from the mainland. If you can find a beekeeper on the island they may be prepared to help you with a starter colony and give you some tips if you can get alongside them.

You have a few endangered species on the island - the Lewis yellow tailed bumble for instance but you often find that these species are specific to some local fauna and do not directly compete with honey bees ... but, local knowledge is what you need. Plenty of help on here with general beekeeping issues but you can't beat local information in such an environment.

 

[Murox]

Have a good read through this thread on the forum. There are beekeepers dotted around on many islands, you should be able to find out easily enough who has bees on Lewis.. Make contact with the SBA and ask some questions directly - either the Secretary contact point or the Presidents will get you you started.Please source any bees thoughtfully as many islands and areas in Scotland remain varroa free zones. Poly hives are in fact more robust than you might think, they are are also warmer and not subject to water penetration in heavy winds, and won't need a shed to keep them in ordinarily, though I know some do. I have some poly hive and even hear its very windy a lot of the time, my simple system is to use a either a corkscrew ground anchor or long pin firmly embedded into the soil directly under the hive stand and to attach the hive strap to it. Not had any problems at all even through the recent serious gales.

Edit added.
If its still up to date this is probably your nearest local beekeepers association - not so handy really but its a starting point for making contacts.

Skye and Lochalsh

David Bevan

[email protected]

01599 555415

Seadrift, Avernish, Kyle, IV40 8EQ

https://www.skyelochalshbees.co.uk/

 

[Hairy]

Thank you all.
I had already contacted the Skye group since that's a nice ferry ride away Highland Bees in Inverness might be a source too, but no response from either yet. Getting back here from one of the other islands would be a multi day trip, how do I do that with a boot full of bees?!?!
And of course not importing nasties is certainly something I'm aware of!

 

[0bee-1]

It's unlikely to have any serious impact if it's only a couple of hives... there were some beekeepers on Lewis already, one near Stornaway - so you need to find out where they are. There is a concern that varroa gets introduced to the Islands, some of which are varroa free - I don't know if Lewis is in this favourable situation but, if it is, you must not introduce bees that will have varroa from the mainland. If you can find a beekeeper on the island they may be prepared to help you with a starter colony and give you some tips if you can get alongside them.

You have a few endangered species on the island - the Lewis yellow tailed bumble for instance but you often find that these species are specific to some local fauna and do not directly compete with honey bees ... but, local knowledge is what you need. Plenty of help on here with general beekeeping issues but you can't beat local information in such an environment.

Really good points about avoiding importing pests and diseases well as going for locally adapted bees

 

[0bee-1]

Thank you all.
I had already contacted the Skye group since that's a nice ferry ride away Highland Bees in Inverness might be a source too, but no response from either yet. Getting back here from one of the other islands would be a multi day trip, how do I do that with a boot full of bees?!?!
And of course not importing nasties is certainly something I'm aware of!

Welcome and good luck !

 

[MJNT]

I knew of a beekeeper near Stornoway who had a lot of hives he moved about the island in the summer and someone In Breanish (Uig) had a couple of hives four of five years ago and produced Heather honey from the moors near Mealista but gave up after being stung a lot. If you can move them to the machair for June until September you should do well but long wet winters and short windy summers will be a challenge !

 

[enrico]

To tie my hives down I use a large iron screw peg each side and a ratchet strap across the top. Never fails

 

[Hairy]

Thank you again

Providing an anchor is not the issue. Polystyrene is not the most durable substance. Something made from maybe MDPE would be fine, wood will be ok for a few years, paying £300+ for a poly hive seems to me to require the crossing of more fingers than I currently have? Maybe I could clad it in something more durable though.

 

[madasafish]

If you are worried about poly damage using straps, then glue a small section of aluminium sheet/hard wood onto the area.
I do this with poly nucs made out of house insulation - which is far softer than the poly in poly nucs.

 

[Boston Bees]

Thank you again

Providing an anchor is not the issue. Polystyrene is not the most durable substance. Something made from maybe MDPE would be fine, wood will be ok for a few years, paying £300+ for a poly hive seems to me to require the crossing of more fingers than I currently have? Maybe I could clad it in something more durable though.

You are completely wrong which is understandable as you have no practical experience of these hives. Perhaps you are thinking about the type of polystyrene you get in packaging. Don't, it is far denser than that.

Once you get a modern poly hive you will understand.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Polystyrene is not the most durable substance.

we are talking poly hives not polystyrene. They will cope easily in your environment. I have polynucs for years and believe you me they don't get pampered in the least and spend winter and summer out in the open. There are people on here who have hives that were made in the 1970's and are still perfectly serviceable, and things have moved on since then.

 

[drex]

I agree, even if aestheticly I prefer timber. Certainly a bit of reinforcement for straps to go over is a good idea. I have a few small dents in mine where I did not do this

 

[Hairy]

A quick read of many websites selling poly hives say it is polystyrene, even if perhaps a denser and more durable version than in other usages.
I'm glad I am wrong in how fragile it would seem to be though

 

[madasafish]

It's only fragile when you stand a lighted smoker on the roof!

 

[Amari]

Providing an anchor is not the issue. Polystyrene is not the most durable substance. Something made from maybe MDPE would be fine, wood will be ok for a few years, paying £300+ for a poly hive seems to me to require the crossing of more fingers than I currently have? Maybe I could clad it in something more durable though.

-Poly hives are cheaper than wood.

-As above, polyhives are very robust whereas my 10-15-year old wooden ones are tending to warp/wear, enough sometimes to attract robbers.

-re your latitude, I seem to remember that there is one member of the forum who keeps bees in Orkney. There is a beekeeper in Shetland where we holidayed last year.