Failing 2011 Queens

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CB008

House Bee
Joined
Apr 7, 2010
Messages
156
Reaction score
0
Location
Guildford, Surrey
Hive Type
National
Number of Hives
4
I had 4 hives in excellent condition all with 2011 queens going into winter. All came out well but since emerging from winter 3 Queens have failed and are currently being superseded. I am wondering why this might be and was thinking it could possibly be due to the Queens not mating well last summer with the bad weather. I would be interested in the thoughts of others to see if there is a lesson I need to learn here or whether this is uncommon.
 
If these were early 2011 mated (like May) they may have not been totally 'fuelled up'
.
If late queens, the weather was also variable, so the same could have occurred. Such are the vagaries of the UK weather (climate is good - just get lousy weather).

Guessing that all four were from the same batch of queens?
 
Yes, all early season and were all laying well but, as you say, seeme dto have run out of fuel.
 
I ve had the same so Im letting them requeen and buying in queens as replacements if the queens mate then ill over winter them in nucs
if not then it doesnt matter grafting isnt going well due to the weather only had 2 queens mate out of around 20 v queens not good at all.
 
Was 2011 so different to the preceding few? Speaking for my own location, weather took a decided downturn in 2007 and the pattern has stayed pretty similar since. It seems the trend for wet, miserable Summers is becoming the norm and yet somehow any new queens I've had have managed mating flights.
 
Was 2011 so different to the preceding few?

The main problem has been the expectation that early good weather is an indicator for the future (short term as in A/S today, queen mated in three weeks and laying shortly after).

Unfortunately it does not follow, and those that think they are getting a head start are surprised/upset/ etc when the weather is not in aggreement with their plans.

It was all A/S's in April and lousy weather in May. This year it was unseasonally warm (even hot) in March, so lots of A/Sing, and lousy (mostly) ever since.

Our climate is good, the weather is variable. Everyone should be aware of that and not be disappointed when the weather is inappropriate to their expectations, or even better - reduce those expectations to something nearer the real world.

Queen rearing in the UK is something of a lottery at times; honey crops can (and do) fail to materialise. Some out there need to get used to it.

'Nuff said, except for saying set dates and weather forecasting is bad news for those beeks that rely entirely on them.
 
Very true, we certainly can't rely on anything like the seasons we can remember, all we can do is adjust to what we get. As things stand at the moment, this year is looking like it's going to be my worst.
 
Both my neighbour and I have had problems with 2011 queens not coming into lay after overwintering, I have also had a couple that have decided to supersede. In fact out of 6 I have 1 bought queen left, I have had to cull 2, and 3 have failed. I culled 1 for temper and the other for sacbrood.
 
Was 2011 so different to the preceding few?

The main problem has been the expectation that early good weather is an indicator for the future (short term as in A/S today, queen mated in three weeks and laying shortly after).

Unfortunately it does not follow, and those that think they are getting a head start are surprised/upset/ etc when the weather is not in aggreement with their plans.

It was all A/S's in April and lousy weather in May. This year it was unseasonally warm (even hot) in March, so lots of A/Sing, and lousy (mostly) ever since.

Our climate is good, the weather is variable. Everyone should be aware of that and not be disappointed when the weather is inappropriate to their expectations, or even better - reduce those expectations to something nearer the real world.

Queen rearing in the UK is something of a lottery at times; honey crops can (and do) fail to materialise. Some out there need to get used to it.

'Nuff said, except for saying set dates and weather forecasting is bad news for those beeks that rely entirely on them.

HereHere:iagree:
 
I am the same - I bought 4 new queens from a good local breeder in August '11 - all built up well, but now all are gone either laid themselves to death or just 'gone'.
 
Neither of the Qs I raised last year mated well. One didn't manage to lay more than about 50% worker brood, and was replaced; the other did very well and looked like a good Q but ran out of steam before this spring and they replaced her. Both the two which mated this year seem fine so far.

Interestingly, the one which arrived in a prime swarm last April is still going strong. She is probably a 2010 Q. No major problems except that she is very ready to stop laying if the weather turns bad: I keep thinking she's gone, but then the sun comes out, and lots of eggs start appearing again. She's not marked, but very big, with distinctive pale stripes. I catch sight of her quite often. Her colony made some nice, late honey last year so I've done well out of that swarm.

The two new ones from this year took a month to start laying after hatching; I thought I'd lost them. But no, they're both doing well so far. Time will tell if they suffer the same fate as last year's...

RAB's right about the weather. There's no guarantees whatsoever and we shouldn't expect any. Some years you just don't get much honey, if any. Other years you're painting the house with it*.

*Figuratively speaking. Don't do this!!!
 
2011 was not a vintage year for queens. A patchy lot at best due to chopped up weather at mating time. Some years you get queens that go on and on and are still the best queens in your unit when they are three years old, other years there can be a quarter of them already duds once spring comes in.

I have mentioned on here already that we had a 70% failure rate in some of the mating sites in 2011..........and those that DID mate and lay were likely to be poor.

Thought 2012 was headed the same way, but thi9s mornings round revealed only 5 not yet laying queens out of four apiaries (each of 20 hives plus up to 20 splits) and the total laying young queens would be around 50 since last visit. Promising a far better outcome than was the initial fear.
 
Low level contamination with neonicotinoid pesticides?

I had 4 hives in excellent condition all with 2011 queens going into winter. All came out well but since emerging from winter 3 Queens have failed and are currently being superseded. I am wondering why this might be and was thinking it could possibly be due to the Queens not mating well last summer with the bad weather. I would be interested in the thoughts of others to see if there is a lesson I need to learn here or whether this is uncommon.

There's of course another reason why your bees might fail:

sublethal poisoning with systemic neonic pesticides.

If you are within foraging range of fields that have been planted with neonic treated seeds then your bees might bring home contaminated nectar and pollen from either the crop itself or plants growing in the verges.

If the contamination is quite low, you might not notice any direct toxic effects, but the colony could stop thriving and the queens might fail.

Early supercedure seems to have become a hallmark of areas with high rates of neonic treated oilseed rape: the bees bring in a lot of OSR honey, but soon after that the colonies stop developing and could even try to replace their queens.

If you have any chance, track down the farmer growing the stuff and investigate what he has planted, if you explain the problems you are having with your bees he might reconsider re. using those pesticides again.
 
There's of course another reason why your bees might fail:

sublethal poisoning with systemic neonic pesticides.

If you are within foraging range of fields that have been planted with neonic treated seeds then your bees might bring home contaminated nectar and pollen from either the crop itself or plants growing in the verges.

If the contamination is quite low, you might not notice any direct toxic effects, but the colony could stop thriving and the queens might fail.

Early supercedure seems to have become a hallmark of areas with high rates of neonic treated oilseed rape: the bees bring in a lot of OSR honey, but soon after that the colonies stop developing (Thats called the June gap in my book, and has always happened) and could even try to replace their queens.

If you have any chance, track down the farmer growing the stuff and investigate what he has planted, if you explain the problems you are having with your bees he might reconsider re. using those pesticides again.

I have had to revise my posting as I regretted my choice of intemperate words to describe my opinion of the above post. Suffice to say I am not on the same planet as the poster it seems, and their post is full of weasel words.

The 2011 duff mating effect was pretty well uniform, even in areas with no OSR at all, and actually marginally the contrary was true, the OSR areas tended to be better, bar Aberdeenshire. Last years problems were due to ONE effect. Weather. Aberdeenshire was worst because the weather was worst. The variable pattern of good and bad years for queen matings and subsequent performance long predates neonics, and probably even beekeepers........ we have, father and son, seen much the same variation since the 1950s. No serious degradation in queen lifespan either, and we have been practiacally swimming in neonic treated crops since they first arrived.

I have been dealing with crops with neonics for years and there is no serious issue I can see. Life is better with them than with the stuff that went before, and MUCH better than back in the hostathion days.

Pray tell.........if you or one of your associates persuades a local farmer to revert to a more toxic pre neonic chemical on his crop, and it then gives a serious spray kill to MY bees, partially as a result of your activism............are you happy to share in settling the damages claim? ( I HAVE sued for spray damage before btw, and won.) Its a serious question, because if it happens and outside persuasion has been a factor in his/her choice of chemical, the person doing the persuading, be it an agonomist or an activist or whoever, WILL be named in the action.

I suppose I had better go cash my fat cheque from Bayer now.........lol. No doubt while I am there I will meet Gavin et al cashing theirs too. I may have a long wait as the potential queue seems to be a long one. Everyone anywhere who declines to condemn neonics seems to be in the pay of these companies.
 
There's of course another reason why your bees might fail:

sublethal poisoning with systemic neonic pesticides.

If you are within foraging range of fields that have been planted with neonic treated seeds then your bees might bring home contaminated nectar and pollen from either the crop itself or plants growing in the verges.

If the contamination is quite low, you might not notice any direct toxic effects, but the colony could stop thriving and the queens might fail.

Early supercedure seems to have become a hallmark of areas with high rates of neonic treated oilseed rape: the bees bring in a lot of OSR honey, but soon after that the colonies stop developing and could even try to replace their queens.

If you have any chance, track down the farmer growing the stuff and investigate what he has planted, if you explain the problems you are having with your bees he might reconsider re. using those pesticides again.
This is interesting as I am right on the OSR - these hives produced 147 lb of OSR honey despite the failing queens
 
Slightly off topic but does anyone know of a problem with NZ bees this year I know someone who has had two fail from three queens and others comment that they are seeing a good bit of drone in the hives.

Perhaps NZ has had bad weather this year.
 
Slightly off topic but does anyone know of a problem with NZ bees this year I know someone who has had two fail from three queens and others comment that they are seeing a good bit of drone in the hives.

Perhaps NZ has had bad weather this year.

They had awful weather. No queens mated with our chosen suppliers for several weeks. When they DID come available to us they were the equivalent of October mated here. No thanks, would not buy them for myself and would not sell them on to others.

Some of the breeders of the Italian type stock were in better areas, but not long off the phone with a guy who worked here for us last year and whose parents have a large outfit south of Christchurch. They have had their worst season in 50 years.

Rotten weather, protracted cold wet spells, no matings worth the name, and the new seasons queens failing even before their winter set in.

Wonder how many thousand miles the neonic spray drift had to go to hit them so badly? No neonics in their area btw........
 

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