Expected mite drop?

[thedozzer]

Hi all
we are doing our Autumn Varroa mite treatment, we have used Apivar after the advice on here and from others.

We have followed the instructions putting 2 strips, 5 frames apart.
and following some of the excellent tips on here we have greased the inspection board so the little buggers don't run off.

we put the strips in on Friday afternoon and we have had a quick look yesterday and again this morning, and there only appears to be 8 mites in total.

how long does it take the Apivar to take affect an what should we be seeing in a weeks time to know if its working?

the other question is, we opened the packet of 10 strips but it says to use once open, but we only have the one hive, so we vac sealed the in a second bag, will these be OK until needed for some spring treatment.

 

[Beefriendly]

It's a slow burner. Mite killing takes several days and then you have all the mites that are inside cells yet to emerge. That's why it's in for 6 weeks.

 

[thedozzer]

It's a slow burner. Mite killing takes several days and then you have all the mites that are inside cells yet to emerge. That's why it's in for 6 weeks.

Thanks, will have to wait then, patience has never been one of my strong points!

 

[Ian123]

Rather than a spring treatment consider the use of winter oxalic vape or trickled, ive very rarely found any other form of mite control needed other than an autumn and winter treatment. Alternating treatment types will also have the benifit to all of prolonging the use of miticides/chemical type methods, because sooner or later resistance issues will appear as with apistan. Fyi apivar has been in use for many years more than its approved status would suggest.

 

[thedozzer]

Rather than a spring treatment consider the use of winter oxalic vape or trickled, ive very rarely found any other form of mite control needed other than an autumn and winter treatment. Alternating treatment types will also have the benifit to all of prolonging the use of miticides/chemical type methods, because sooner or later resistance issues will appear as with apistan. Fyi apivar has been in use for many years more than its approved status would suggest.

thanks for the pointers.
The only reason we were thinking of a spring treatment is that many people seem to recommend a spring treatment just before the first flow to keep the hive healthy.
I have been looking at the Oxalic treatment but will need to make a new slide in bottom board for the vaporiser, as we have poly hives so a bottom board with the unit in it, through the mesh floor would be the safest? and would mean you could just slide in, treat, slide out.

 

[Ian123]

Then just trickle the oxalic and job done you can sought floors out next season if you wish

 

[madasafish]

thanks for the pointers.
The only reason we were thinking of a spring treatment is that many people seem to recommend a spring treatment just before the first flow to keep the hive healthy.
I have been looking at the Oxalic treatment but will need to make a new slide in bottom board for the vaporiser, as we have poly hives so a bottom board with the unit in it, through the mesh floor would be the safest? and would mean you could just slide in, treat, slide out.

I just slide in entrance onto mesh floor and block entrance on polyhives.

 

[thedozzer]

just a quick update and more questions on the Varroa treatment, its been just over 2 weeks since we put the Apivar in, and in that time we have only seen about 20 mites in total on the inspection board, have checked it every few days and cleaned and re greased. we took the feeder and crown board off yesterday to have a quick look as it was warm, and they have propolised the top of the strips and look to be running over them. when we added the Strips there was very little BIAS, if the queen was having a bit of a brood break as many others have mentioned on other threads would this account for the low mite count? as we are wondering if we have done something wrong with the timing/placement or if we have just been very lucky with the mite load?

 

[enrico]

Every hive can differ considerably. All you can do is your best. You have done that.
E

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

If you sort out your autumn treatment properly, you shouldn't need a winter treatment - or spring.
People tend to forget that the original reason for winter OA trickling was that it was at one time the only available treatment that worked (as mites had become immune to other chemical treatments) but was ineffective in the autumn as there was brood present.
Now, winter trickling seems to be almost a religion - to be conducted whether needed or not.
Effective autumn treatment should mean that, apart from in some exceptional circumstances, you bees should be fine for a year and only monitoring is needed.
Sublimation is a good winter alternative as it doesn't involve ripping the crown board off and pouring cold syrup over the bees.

 

[Ian123]

If you sort out your autumn treatment properly, you shouldn't need a winter treatment - or spring.
People tend to forget that the original reason for winter OA trickling was that it was at one time the only available treatment that worked (as mites had become immune to other chemical treatments) but was ineffective in the autumn as there was brood present.
Now, winter trickling seems to be almost a religion - to be conducted whether needed or not.
Effective autumn treatment should mean that, apart from in some exceptional circumstances, you bees should be fine for a year and only monitoring is needed.
Sublimation is a good winter alternative as it doesn't involve ripping the crown board off and pouring cold syrup over the bees.

Sorry i take issue with that, I would never recommend to people that a single winter treatment was sufficient and never saw others do it. If i found anyone doing that i would have laughed at them. The only possible exception would be in parts of the world that have a shorter summer period and there by a shorter brood period and less of a chance for mite numbers to build. I would say winter treatments have been advocated as belt and braces approach when resistance built to apistan, but even then apiguard/thymol followed very swiftly. Also for those that were proactive info for additional treatments was available in the form of european research/treatments not yet approved in the uk.
I will continue a autunm treatment followed by winter because they serve different reasons...your first treatment kills the summer build up of mites and gives bees the ability to produce healthy winter bees. With very mild periods we can have months of brood rearing after treatment and there is also a chance of mites being picked up from other hives. So a simple winter treatment vape or trickle that costs pence, there is no chance of resistance issues and provides bees with the cleanest possible start to the following season is a no brainer. Personaly i prefer the trickle but obviously many are now vaping thats just choice. A number of times i trickled 200 plus hives in a day, you just could not do that with a vape. As for this rubbish about ripping into or disturbing hives in winter its just b%^&*%^$. You dont rip into them you do it with consideration!!!! I could just as easily say that opening/ripping into a hive in winter and treating will reduce any losses, it did for myself and many others in periods when others lost large numbers and far more than i or others that ripped into hives ever did.
Also dont confuse crap info given out by many regarding treatments particularly in the early days of organic treatments against those that did the research and followed good pratice already established in many parts of the world long before the UK

 

[fatshark]

If you do your autumn treatment early enough to properly protect your overwintering bees then mite levels are not minimal in midwinter (due to mid/late autumn broodrearing). A winter treatment then ensures your colonies get the best possible start to the new season. If you don't treat when broodless in midwinter then you're just storing up problems for the future.

Of course, if you treat late in the season, your winter treatment is largely redundant ... but your overwintering bees were not properly protected.

All of this is climate-dependent, but on an average year across the UK this probably applies.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Welcome to beekeeping by numbers rather than thought.

 

[fatshark]

How is the statement wrong?

 

[Hivemaker.]

A number of times i trickled 200 plus hives in a day, you just could not do that with a vape.

Ian, you can do that easily or lots more with vaping if using the right equipment.

 

[Ian123]

Welcome to beekeeping by numbers rather than thought.

Absolute tripe you could not be further from the truth....I would say proactive forward thinking beekeeping that required far more thought than the staetement above....My initial reaction to being told to open hives in Winter was as many others and it was an Italian beek who first got me onto it. My first thought was that he was in Italy obviously, finding out the guy got 6ft of snow some what put my concerns at ease. Secondly at the time there was no info from any organisation in the UK so a great deal of thought and research went into the first time i used oxalic to clean internal wood work!!!!!!!
3rd even having done it on my own hives a number of times with great results, when bee farmer friends asked me to give them a hand it takes a little nerve to go and open a blokes livelyhood in winter and poor acid over the lot...in particular when theres the odd horror storey about of individuals who f&^$%^ up.

So quite frankly far more thought than you suggest.....

hi pete yes am sure the new equipment is far quicker if you have the right kit/help. I would still say you could trickle the average hive faster but thats just imo. And would say the actual method is less important than the fact its done in the first place...various methods work it costs little and you will not kill bees lifting the lid off in winter Fact!!!...could you survive with out doing a winter treatment of course but quite frankly given cost, lack of side effects and obvious PROVEN benifits to the bees why would you not

 

[Hivemaker.]

hi pete yes am sure the new equipment is far quicker if you have the right kit/help. I would still say you could trickle the average hive faster but thats just imo. And would say the actual method is less important than the fact its done in the first place...various methods work it costs little and you will not kill bees lifting the lid off in winter Fact!!!...could you survive with out doing a winter treatment of course but quite frankly given cost, lack of side effects and obvious PROVEN benifits to the bees why would you not

Using the Sublimox it takes 25 seconds per treatment, can easily treat 60 hives an hour, much faster vaporizers claim to be able to treat 300 an hour.

I have only treated twice during winter, that was back in 2006/7, never again.

 

[BMH]

Using the Sublimox it takes 25 seconds per treatment, can easily treat 60 hives an hour, much faster vaporizers claim to be able to treat 300 an hour.

I have only treated twice during winter, that was back in 2006/7, never again.

When do you treat using the sublimox?

Ive just finished off the stocks I had left of Apiguard, so moving over to Sublimox for treatments going forward.

I was thinking first hit would be around December time and them monitor into the new year

 

[Hivemaker.]

When do you treat using the sublimox?

Best time here is between last week of August and third week in September, as over 75% of hives are usually completely broodless.

 

[BMH]

Hmmm. Maybe I'll give them all a blast this weekend then!

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