Evil personified

[majika]

Hi Guys

I need a bit of advice and I have hit a brick wall.

I have a hive that is the nastiest set of bees that i have ever come across.

It has gone from bees on three frames in Feb to now 14x12 and three supers stacked with bees.

I inspected them yesterday and had to give in at super 2 down and opted for some more protection after getting about 25 stings through the suit (sherrif full). Today i tried again and put a painting suit over the sherrif and managed to get down to half way through the 14x12 before taking too many hits and had to escape the torrent of attacking bees (13 stings throug two suits and leather gloves with rubber over!). (planty of smoke and water was in operation throughout!!)


I am stuck as to the best way to reduce the abuse whilst sorting out the requeen.

Can anyone shed some light on an emergency way of reducing the anger alongside sorting out a re-queen. Also any way to work out how to find the queen with so many bees even though she is marked. i.e. multi queen excluders. Split the hive into two and reduce the numbers of attacking bees etc..

Thanks in advance. Yours slightly spaced out from the stings....


Jamie

 

[snelgrove]

Put a brood chamber on original site and move Colony about 15 20 feet away, all flying bees will return to original site, inspecting will be alot easier. requeen this isn't beekeeping. Torture more like

 

[dexter's shed]

lift the supers off without splitting, get help if need be, remove the brood boxes to 10ft away, supers on the hive floor, leave them alone for half hour, flying bees return to the supers, giving you less bees to go through, spray those in the brood box with sugar water before pulling out frames

 

[Thymallus]

Not a perfect solution given the size of hive, but can you lift/move it?
If you can, move it away from original site and leave another empty one there. And leave alone for a few hours, or overnight. Assuming good weather your nasty flying foragers will end up away from the hive you need to sort out, leaving the relatively passive nurse bees brood and queen where you should be able to examine them with relative ease.
If too big to move.....errrrrr Buy a old diving suit with screw on glass helmet and make sure you put a bee proof mesh over the brathing tube....

Whichever way, squash queen.

 

[Thymallus]

This ain't right, three almost identical solutions.... nOt a typical beekeeping response!

 

[Obee1]

At last. Some bees that make my meanies look placid! Assume they aren't getting your face through the veil? If it is the just suit and gloves they are breaching then add more layers underneath. There must be a thickness of clothing they can't get through. Once you know they can't sting you it becomes easier. Unpleasant, but not scary. Then as others have said, move the hive away to bleed off the fliers. Then you can inspect brood and frames and hunt for queen much more easily.

Have you got a new queen organised?

Obee

 

[Moggs]

Why work down through the supers if you want to look at the brood? Take supers off and put to one side, still with CB and they will continue with their work while you get to the important parts. Think about it! When you reach the brood the whole colony will be wired on alarm pheromone.


I've had that déjà vu before...

 

[Honeybeeco]

This is quite strange - I don't mean the similar answers by the way, but I can't be the only one here on this forum who has noticed a lot of people are complaining of nasty bees, that are out of the ordinary and which were usually nice bees, and more so that I find it all stranger as all my home hives ( except 1 ) have been continually nasty so far this year, to the points where beginner would be scared I'm sure.

Our club members are reporting the same in their mainly welsh bees.

Don't forget I've kept bees 30+ years and my whole family keeps bees ( nasty bees at some hives ) and I'm finding this amount of people reporting bad tempered bees around the UK very strange indeed.

By the way, in answer to your quetion, do what the others told you if your going to find the queen and get rid of her, have a frame of eggs from a known good source in the background - or a bought queen of known source, move the brood boxes away, find the queen kill here and put the frame of 1 to 3 day old eggs in place or add the queen by the many methods we all know best.

In a few weeks the nasty linage will have gone - assuming it was the queen that was generating nasty bees.

 

[Swarm]

That's if he can lift them off in one.

Doesn't sound nice at all, a wet suit or multiple layers under your suit should help, perhaps a hoody as well for extra head protection. Even when they can't get you it's still unpleasant so some assistance will certainly help.

 

[Thymallus]

but I can't be the only one here on this forum who has noticed a lot of people are complaining of nasty bees, that are out of the ordinary and which were usually nice bees, and more so that I find it all stranger as all my home hives ( except 1 ) have been continually nasty so far this year, to the points where beginner would be scared I'm sure.

Our club members are reporting the same in their mainly welsh bees.

Yes, all my local natives are much tetchier than usual. Been hearing the same thing quite lot. I put it down to the late spring, weather, and and an OSR flow on they can't access due to weather.
Prediction is all will return to norm IF the weather improves, but little sign of it doing so in the near future.

 

[Honeybeeco]

I'm would have said the poor weathers to blame but we have a onsite weather station here and so far this years better than for a long time and we are experiencing more solar radiation and UV than normal. That all said, let's stick to the weathers to blame as its easier than trying to work out what it is

I've just called Dad who said he remembers them being like this around 76/77. I'm hoping he's right because the summer weathers might be a lovely one then

We are about 20 miles from our nearest OSR fields so the bees only know about it if one of them happens to be in my car when we pass the fields and I let it out when we get back to tell her friends.

As our queens are known as not normally nasty ones, we aren't doing anything about them as our hives are at the bottom of our garden away from everyone.

 

[B+.]

When you reach the brood the whole colony will be wired on alarm pheromone.

I was thinking the same thing.
Its the older foragers that will attack. You need to bleed these off so you can work through the brood box. If there is anyway to turn the stack through 180degrees you could put an empty box with a frame of brood in. The older bees bleed off to the original entrance and the younger bees are left with the queen.
Thats a lot of weight to rotate through 180degrees though

 

[Thymallus]

We are about 20 miles from our nearest OSR fields

They do tend to get a bit tetchy when on OSR even in "normal" springs. I figure it 'aint helping as my locals are deffo worse than normal on it.

 

[user 6228]

our tetchy one is only that isnt sheltered from the wind... We have had sun + rain+ wind the last couple of weeks

 

[Fatbee]

Depending upon how you plan to re-queen you need to consider as well that if brood is left in the Q- state before a new queen is introduced or you do it from eggs from another colony they will attempt to raise emergency queens so you would need to go back through and remove these. If they are as bad as they sound you might be better sacrificing the brood as well despite it seeming wrong to destroy stock.

They must have some long or strong stingers to be getting through your protection!

 

[Moggs]

That's if he can lift them off in one.

Why lift them off in one? Lift them off individually, stack to one side, cover, inspect, reverse process.

There are many factors that cause bees to become especially defensive. Stealing their newly- processed OSR treasure is one. Variable weather and temperatures, hasty or clumsy manipulations another, too much smoke, too little smoke, queen performance, hive conditions, robbing, etc.

Take a step back. Look carefully at all. A few moments observation and contemplation often helps.


I've had that déjà vu before...

 

[mbc]

All good advice, but the best bit was get help.
It is all easier said than done, but two pairs of hands will make it quicker and give you more confidence, and this in turn helps to keep bees manageable. If anyone in your association has a reputation as a bee whisperer then think of a tempting incentive and beg him/her to come and show you how it's done.

 

[Thymallus]

Yes, absolutely. The good but oft forgotten bit of helper.

Not wishing to sidetrack too much, but your mention of Bee Whisperer brought back memories of a series of "detective stories" the first one was called Death By A Honey Bee by Abigail Keam. She is a beekeeper (fictional, heroine) who finds her fiercest competitor (a bee whisperer) dead amongst her hives.
For those with Kindles/e-readers it's available for free download (Amazon at least), and for an free e-book is very readable....the rest of the series -Josiah Reynolds Mysteries-, featuring same beekeeper, you need to pay for.
No, I have no affiliation with author, but for a free book really enjoyed it.


Okay some of the swarm prevention may have you giggling, but obviously written by someone who keeps bees.

 

[Jack Straw]

Try some motorcycle water proofs

Why is it that the aggressive ones always seem to be the best foragers?
For ultimate protection I wear a set of motorcycle all-in-one waterproofs. You sweat buckets but they are completely sting-proof. If you have some at the back of the garage or can borrow some from a friend it will give you complete safety for your legs arms and torso.
I've read several times lately that a drop of clove oil or a drop of lemongrass oil can help calm bees. Ordered some but not tried it yet
Even my first generation Carnolians who last autumn were the sweetest bees ever now attack en-masse whenever I am in their vicinity.

 

[Thymallus]

Why is it that the aggressive ones always seem to be the best foragers?

Not sure that is true. My most productive colonies (I use productive loosely this appalling spring). My most useless foragers are also the most aggressive....should say were, as being re-queened at the moment.