Evil personified

[charlievictorbravo]

Are there any pure Cornish Amms?. And no Icon I'm not having a pop just asking a genuine question before you get all hissy and sarcastic.
I thought the best they managed to find by genotypying was around 68%.
B4 Projec Assuming I'm understanding the data correctly.

68% AMM was the average of 7 samples - the highest was 80%. My understanding is that the only "pure" AAMs in the UK are on the Isle of Man and Colonsay (spelling?) off the west coast of Scotland. It's possible to increase the % up to 70%-ish but you need isolated breeding facilities to make much progress beyond that.

If AMMs can be bred anywhere on the mainland, it's west Cornwall because it's surrounded by sea except for a short land border with England. From St Austell on the south coast to Newquay on the north coast is only about 20 km. There would need to be some serious legislation - which is not going to happen - to prevent imports into west Cornwall for a black bee reservation there.

CVB

 

[For want of a better word]

68% AMM was the average of 7 samples - the highest was 80%. My understanding is that the only "pure" AAMs in the UK are on the Isle of Man and Colonsay (spelling?) off the west coast of Scotland. It's possible to increase the % up to 70%-ish but you need isolated breeding facilities to make much progress beyond that.

If AMMs can be bred anywhere on the mainland, it's west Cornwall because it's surrounded by sea except for a short land border with England. From St Austell on the south coast to Newquay on the north coast is only about 20 km. There would need to be some serious legislation - which is not going to happen - to prevent imports into west Cornwall for a black bee reservation there.

CVB

It may well yet happen... along the Tamar North to South.... after Rame has exclusivity!

For one and all

Yeghes da

 

[For want of a better word]

Are there any pure Cornish Amms?

Yes .. Two separate dimes, as distinctive from one another as they are from other Amm.
But now I have told you that I have to gag you before you tell anyone!

Yeghes da

 

[B+.]

. There would need to be some serious legislation - which is not going to happen - to prevent imports into west Cornwall for a black bee reservation there.

CVB

Whats to stop you from using II?

 

[Thymallus]

It's possible to increase the % up to 70%-ish but you need isolated breeding facilities to make much progress beyond that.

Alas, you simply cannot breed back to "pure" 100% Amms from mongrels. You have to accept that you are pretty stuck with what you have.

 

[Thymallus]

Are there any pure Cornish Amms?

Yes .. Two separate dimes, as distinctive from one another as they are from other Amm.

We have a similar situation in Yorkshire with our mongrels. Upland are swarmy and nasty, 20 miles away, less swarmy and perhaps not so bad tempered. Very distinctive characteristics.

 

[Finman]

.
I Wonder, if British bees would be all pure AMM, what kind of beekeeping it would be on the Isles?

 

[mbc]

Alas, you simply cannot breed back to "pure" 100% Amms from mongrels. You have to accept that you are pretty stuck with what you have.

Backcrossing is a recognised technique used in many branches of husbandry, resulting in "pure" enough progeny to satisfy pedigree aficionados, why not with bees?

 

[B+.]

.
I Wonder, if British bees would be all pure AMM, what kind of beekeeping it would be on the Isles?

Not too different....the weather would still be lousy!

 

[Finman]

Backcrossing is a recognised technique used in many branches of husbandry, resulting in "pure" enough progeny to satisfy pedigree aficionados, why not with bees?

Real bee breeding does not to try to go towards history to get 'pure' bee stocks. Actually beebreeders pick genes and features from here and there to get a good combination of features.

Good quality bee stock is a result of long breeding work. In Finland there us a continuos gene flow from foreign countries. Good features are sieved out like before.

Bees have become better along decades. Bees are nowadays easy to handle and hives give yields what we could not even imagine 30 years ago. Insemination has had a big role in these achievements.

And thanks to varroa, it killed feral bee stocks from Finland 20-25 y ago

 

[For want of a better word]

Whats to stop you from using II?

I am.....

Hopefully there may be a DNA testing scheme underway this year to better understand the genetics of the bees in the South West peninsular ( Cornwall)

My aim is to breed from my own best Amm stock, morphological techniques are the best test that is easily available, but brood pattern, temperament,etc etc also give an indication of successes... as it would with any other sub, sub species?

Isolation is difficult, but Cooper seemed to think that AVM was achievable, given the correct conditions, and tenacity from the beekeeper!

I would probably be doing this with a different subtype of bee, as others do, if I was not fortunate enough to be beekeeping in Cornwall.

Yeghes da

 

[Thymallus]

Backcrossing is a recognised technique used in many branches of husbandry, resulting in "pure" enough progeny to satisfy pedigree aficionados, why not with bees?

If your breeding stock is 100% pedigree, yes. But it is a bit incestuous!
But with the local SW Amms at best 80% pure by genome you are starting your breeding program from a mongrel....you can probably stabilize the characteristics you have, but you cannot eliminate the "foreign" genes from their gene pool.

 

[Finman]

But with the local SW Amms at best 80% pure by genome you are starting your breeding program from a mongrel....you can probably stabilize the characteristics you have, but you cannot eliminate the "foreign" genes from their gene pool.

To start breeding program on backyard in the middle of mongrels. A little bit realism into thinking please!

Beebreeders start their beebreeding so, that they take good queens from others breeders. Nobody start breeding from local village mongrels. Something respect for other breeders' work.

 

[mbc]

To start breeding program on backyard in the middle of mongrels. A little bit realism into thinking please!

Beebreeders start their beebreeding so, that they take good queens from others breeders. Nobody start breeding from local village mongrels. Something respect for other breeders' work.

This approach screams bottlenecks and loss of diversity to me.

 

[Finman]

This approach screams bottlenecks and loss of diversity to me.

Loss of diversity in village mongrels.... Kidding....

You may allways buy new gene resources from foreign breeders.

 

[mbc]

.... Kidding.....

Nope, quite serious, the more breeding work done from many diverse backgrounds the better the future of beekeeping imho

 

[Finman]

Nope, quite serious, the more breeding work done from many diverse backgrounds the better the future of beekeeping imho

Only way is go for it! For Future!

 

[mbc]

Only way is go for it! For Future!

Bravo! I knew you'd come round...

 

[B+.]

Bravo! I knew you'd come round...

Unless it was sarcasm. Its hard to tell with Finman sometimes ;-)

 

[Finman]

Unless it was sarcasm. Its hard to tell with Finman sometimes ;-)

It is same with mbc