Encouraging bees to draw comb

[Melbee]

I caught the tail end of a conversation between 2 experienced keepers who were talking about encouraging bees to draw comb but missed the bit that was probably quite important. As I didn't want to interrupt, I thought I would ask the forum :

As a second year beekeeper, I am learning how essential having enough drawn comb is and how stuck I am finding myself by not having enough, either deep or shallow. For instance, when offered a small swarm and though I have a nuc box, I only have frames of foundation. It seemed pointless (and a waste) to put bees into a box where there was nowhere for the queen to lay or for stores to go.

My question is, is there a way to encourage bees to draw foundation?
Thanks everyone !

PS Someone on the forum makes the point that you cannot have enough crownboards - 2nd year in and !!
Lots of learning this year but its been great.

 

[alldigging]

A swarm would or should start drawing foundation. Feeding them helps, but only if you're keeping an eye on it so you can stop feeding when they are starting to store it.

Getting the last frame or two drawn in a brood box can be tricky. I have moved frames around a little (don't split brood away from brood) to the front to get them to draw it all.

Some put a super on so they've got room to store honey rather than worrying about them drawing the brood frames out - so I guess a lot of it is down to what you decide is right for your bees.

 

[Melbee]

Thanks. Yes, the last couple of frames towards the back of the brood boxes are taking time to get drawn so I have moved these about - but not split the brood. I wondered if it was the quality of the wax in the frames, some of which was rather old and had gone pale. I did waft the hairdryer (!) over these frames and the wax returned to normal gold colour.

 

[Swarm]

Move undrawn frames between brood and stores, either one on each side or just on one side. Putting a super on before all the brood frames are drawn is not really the answer because they will probably draw some central frames but the outer frames in the brood chamber will be ignored, leaving lack of laying space and possible swarm preparations.

 

[Fatbee]

I remember being in the same situation never seeming to have drawn comb when trying to expand. I constantly worried why they were not drawing foundation but came to the conclusion that it's not worth worrying about and you get more elation when they do move on to it and I still can't believe how quickly they can draw it when a flow is on and bee numbers are high.
Swarms are even more amazing at drawing out.
My tip would be to focus on getting spare brood comb drawn than supers to help future manipulations. If you're strong use a brood box as a super but only if a flow is on. I got loads drawn this year during OSR flow and now have some spare which I extracted. I also left some on stronger colonies to go double brood.
Bit late to do now but worth considering next year.

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

Someone on the forum makes the point that you cannot have enough crownboards - 2nd year in and !!
Lots of learning this year but its been great.

'Tis I, Melbee.

I know very little, but this seems a fundamental truth!

So glad you're enjoying your beekeeping.


Dusty

 

[ratcatcher]

my way is probably not the way it should be done, but it worked for me

I use drawn out supers in with standard frames of plain wax in poly nucs, just to get them started, yes they build brace comb on the bottom, but its better than nothing, and can be removed later on once into a brood box

I also add supers to bigger colonies, just to get those bees to draw out the comb, they are then given to the smaller colonies as a head start, I expect loads will say Im risking transferring disease, but so far it works for the best

 

[Gilberdyke John]

my way is probably not the way it should be done, but it worked for me

I use drawn out supers in with standard frames of plain wax in poly nucs, just to get them started, yes they build brace comb on the bottom, but its better than nothing, and can be removed later on once into a brood box

I also add supers to bigger colonies, just to get those bees to draw out the comb, they are then given to the smaller colonies as a head start, I expect loads will say Im risking transferring disease, but so far it works for the best

Depends who you talk to but bees in the same apiary are most likely already sharing parasites and ailments. The drones probably spread them around other hives for miles.

 

[REDWOOD]

A swarm is spoilt if it has just foundation, think what happens in the wild, if you give them comb and the queen isn't laying the foragers will only fill it with stores. Swarms always seem to go like a steam train and will need little assistance if any from us.

 

[Melbee]

Thank you Fatbee, Swarm, Ratcatcher, Redwood and JG for the helpful comments particularly about moving the frames about and using super frames in the brood area when stuck.

Also good to hear that not having enough drawn comb has been a problem for others. It's also made me think that I could take on a swarm and let the bees steam ahead.

Dusty thanks. 2 more crownboards arrived by courier today ! Oh joy.

 

[bontbee]

A swarm is spoilt if it has just foundation, think what happens in the wild, if you give them comb and the queen isn't laying the foragers will only fill it with stores. Swarms always seem to go like a steam train and will need little assistance if any from us.

"spoilt"/"spoiled" as in overindulged, or "spoilt "as in ruined

 

[tresallier]

http://capabees.org/content/uploads/2013/02/combbuildingcolonyincrease.pdf

not the answer to the OP but interesting I found nonetheless

 

[Dishmop]

"spoilt"/"spoiled" as in overindulged, or "spoilt "as in ruined

snafu

 

[Gilberdyke John]

A swarm is spoilt if it has just foundation, think what happens in the wild, if you give them comb and the queen isn't laying the foragers will only fill it with stores. Swarms always seem to go like a steam train and will need little assistance if any from us.

Not sure what you mean by swarm is spoilt it has just foundation. Whenever I catch a swarm they only ever get foundation in the hive. No feed for 3 days then two litres of Hivemakers recipe thymolised syrup recipe and left to get on with it.
Always seems to work for me.

 

[madasafish]

Not sure what you mean by swarm is spoilt it has just foundation. Whenever I catch a swarm they only ever get foundation in the hive. No feed for 3 days then two litres of Hivemakers recipe thymolised syrup recipe and left to get on with it.
Always seems to work for me.

+1

 

[dn170221]

It took from redwoods comment that a swarm normally (in the wild) has to start from scratch, so us beekeepers providing a wax foundation is given a head start, spoilt that is compared to a swarm starting in a log say.

 

[alldigging]

It took from redwoods comment that a swarm normally (in the wild) has to start from scratch, so us beekeepers providing a wax foundation is given a head start, spoilt that is compared to a swarm starting in a log say.

And there's also some thoughts that the first to colonise a tree usually don't get chance to store enough food because of the wax building, but second in will usually do better over the first winter.

 

[Pips]

What do you use the spare crown boards for? Covering the supers when you remove for inspections?

 

[Hawklord]

Bees will only draw what they need, and there seems no sense in trying to get them to draw brood frames for next year just to have those sat idle risking attack from wax moth, mice, etc.

 

[oliver90owner]

spoilt"/"spoiled" as in overindulged, or "spoilt "as in ruined

You would be better served by asking if that first word referring to wax was a typo. It does not go with the second usage. One or the other was a typo (or one a temporary brain fart) and I strongly suspect the first.