Drones being slung out

[Beagle23]

Seems a little early, but I'm seeing very young drones being dragged from their cells and flung out of the hives. I know this is normal but the last two years I recorded it as happening 7 weeks from now.

Anyone else seeing this?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Seems a little early, but I'm seeing very young drones being dragged from their cells and flung out of the hives. I know this is normal but the last two years I recorded it as happening 7 weeks from now.

Anyone else seeing this?

Never this early
How’s the varroa?

 

[pargyle]

Never this early
How’s the varroa?

Agree .. or the stores situation ? Have you inspected lately ?

 

[masterBK]

I have noticed that colonies sometimes reduce the number of drones in the hive after a queen has recently mated and started laying. Usually at this time of year it happens during a dearth of pollen and/or nectar or an extended period of bad weather.

 

[beeno]

I have noticed that colonies sometimes reduce the number of drones in the hive after a queen has recently mated and started laying. Usually at this time of year it happens during a dearth of pollen and/or nectar or an extended period of bad weather.

Yes mine did it before the present flow. I do believe the get rid of the older ones.

 

[eltalia]

Seems a little early, but I'm seeing very young drones being dragged from their cells and flung out of the hives. I know this is normal but the last two years I recorded it as happening 7 weeks from now.

Anyone else seeing this?

Calendars are up shi7s creek the past few years (decade)
Listen to the bees and take that QR off now... it is all over, done.

Bill

 

[BILL.HEARD]

Saw this happening a couple of weeks back, a few of my strong colonies threw out a couple of hundred drones on consecutive days. During the current flow they appear to have plenty of drones left.

 

[Beagle23]

Never this early
How’s the varroa?

Very low

Agree .. or the stores situation ? Have you inspected lately ?

OK but not great. Lots of brood up into the 3rd super. The queen had laid in the 4th until recently but that's mostly been backfilled now.

I have noticed that colonies sometimes reduce the number of drones in the hive after a queen has recently mated and started laying. Usually at this time of year it happens during a dearth of pollen and/or nectar or an extended period of bad weather.

2nd year queen, she started laying very early this year.

Yes mine did it before the present flow. I do believe the get rid of the older ones.

These are the youngest drones, straight from their cells.

 

[pargyle]

You have four supers on the hive but not a great deal of stores ? Queen laying into the 4th super ... ?

I think you might have answered your own question .. sounds to me like they have too much space .. brood being laid over a large area - too far spread out for them all to be nursed or because there is so much space you might have laying workers at the top of the hive in the supers where the queen pheremone is thiin and these cells are not being nursed. Bees will then clear them out as they emerge ..

The queen will lay in a column rght the way up the centre of the hive if she is unrestricted but with four supers that's a large area for the nurse bees to cover.

What was the laying pattern like ?
Presumably no queen excluder ?
Are the supers all drawn comb or part drawn ?

I'd consolidate down to get the super frames with brood in them down to the bottom super (effectively giving you brood and a half) unless it is all drone brood.

Take the capped frames off and extract and just give them one super to fill with any uncapped nectar in there. Keep an eye on the laying situation .. if it's all drone brood you might have a problem with your queen. Early queen failure is becoming more common..

If the laying pattern improves and you get more worker brood - problem solved.

As the super fills and more frames get capped you can either add another super or with luck they will start filling the super frames where the brood has emerged.

 

[beebopper]

OP in not far from some of my hives. There is loads of resources coming in so doubt it is the cause.

Also I take the super is mainly backfilled to be there are plenty of stores. If that is correct then Post above would not apply. Some people do not use Queen excluders so it seems unlikely this would cause the what you are observed.

Could virus load or other disease of some sort cause this?

 

[pargyle]

OP in not far from some of my hives. There is loads of resources coming in so doubt it is the cause.

Also I take the super is mainly backfilled to be there are plenty of stores. If that is correct then Post above would not apply. Some people do not use Queen excluders so it seems unlikely this would cause the what you are observed.

Could virus load or other disease of some sort cause this?

I agree, I don't use queen excluders either but the queen can lay vertically up through the centre of the hive.

The OP, when asked about the stores situation said "OK but not great. Lots of brood up into the 3rd super. The queen had laid in the 4th until recently but that's mostly been backfilled now".

Lots of brood suggests that the queen is not diseased but what we don't know is what brood is being laid .. drones being evicted would suggest that there are more drones than the committee wants or they are sub-standard. As you say, could be varroa infestation affecting drone development - if so - could be wing development or even DWV.

Not enough information yet to offer anything other than possibilities but perhaps all our suggestions are a help for the OP to have a fresh look at the situation and perhaps notice something that he hadn't considered ?

 

[beebopper]

I tried not using an excluders - got similar vertical brood pattern which for me was an irritation to manage so went back to excluders. So this sound fairly normal behaviour.

My point was it sounded that they had around a supers worth of honey (although not great at this time of year but I suspect there is also quire a lot stored around brood too) - that does not sound like a lack of resources issue.
I think it is argued that a vertical brood pattern is more natural as its allowing the bees to do what that want whilst an excluder forces them to form an horizontal brood.
Would not have thought this would result in drones being evicted as they are on their last resources.
Maybe it just one of those strange thins you observe sometimes. It appears the colony is fairly normal otherwise. Think I would be tempted to an alcohol wash to check varroa levels though - could have picked up some from other nearby colonies. When was the last varroa check and how were the levels assessed?

 

[pargyle]

Maybe it just one of those strange thins you observe sometimes. It appears the colony is fairly normal otherwise. Think I would be tempted to an alcohol wash to check varroa levels though - could have picked up some from other nearby colonies. When was the last varroa check and how were the levels assessed?

Yes .. good advice .. it will eliminate one possibility

I tend to do a sugar roll rather than an alcohol wash .. really don't like killing bees if I can help it. A sugar roll has just the same effect - the only difference is you end up with live bees and live mites .. and the mites are easy to count as you kill them !

I'd also be having a close look at the drones that are being chucked out for signs of varroa damage ... under developed wings, stunted growth etc.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Lots of brood suggests that the queen is not diseased but what we don't know is what brood is being laid .. drones being evicted would suggest that there are more drones than the committee wants or they are sub-standard. As you say, could be varroa infestation affecting drone development - if so - could be wing development or even DWV.

People should really be on top of this.
I shall start a new thread

 

[Beagle23]

Thanks for the replies. I mentioned in another thread that in this particular hive the queen has been prolific in her laying.

As I mentioned she has gone up into the 4th super and it's a perfect chimney shape stretching from the brood box. Far too much brood in my opinion (drones and females), but it may be that the workers are now putting this right by slinging out the young drones.

Definitely not varroa or disease, it's a really good, healthy colony.

It's also the first time I've gone without an excluder and I have mixed feelings about it. I am feeling more confident that the bees are addressing the brood vs stores imbalance.