Drone Culling for Varroa Control

[Hachi]

Varroa control is one of the internets / beekeeping worlds greatest catastrophes as there is so much c r a p talked about it. To appreciate the scale of the challenge you only have to look at the reaction by the Aussies to their first recent outbreak there and the panic its causing.

There are however, various reliable and peer reviewed scientific sources any discerning beek should look up, a couple that comes to mind is the excellent series by Bob Binnie and the University of Georgia. This will answer many questions and provide the science behind what they say. Equal first would be Randy Oliver. Another Champion amongst men and not any Aloa vera in sight. Both on YouTube.

 

[magor]

Ok, so he claims he can cull the drones from his production hives because he doesn't want their genetics anyhow. I guess there's a chain of reasoning there, though clearly that's not practical for people who don't have the space or the colony numbers to have separate honey production and breeding apiaries. I wasn't aware that "the usual suspects" in terms of varroa treatments (or the residues that might be left in the wax) contribute to reduced drone viablity I have to admit, but if that is the case perhaps it could also be handled (in the UK at least) by treating during the winter and then culling the drone comb rather than the drones (for example by putting frames with a starter strip or foundationless frames into the hive before they start to raise drones and then replacing it at the end of the season?

He seemed rather coy about his treatment methods for his queen raising colonies, but I'm not sure I follow what he was suggesting that commercial breeders do. If he's concerned about treatment residues being in the wax, how does moving frames of drones from a treated colony to an untreated one help? Are they continually treating the source colonies for varroa perhaps? If feels to me as though there's some information missing there.

James

maybe him does no want to treat adult drones avoid affect them sperm , it seems its not only the amount of available drones in matings but also the amount of capable drones and may also all those usual suspects that affect drone sperms affect and Queens? whom live much longer than bees or drones and during her life is present in more than one treats

anyway he said and couple things about present drones and happy hives and about how can read hives nutrition using drones, interesting also was the part how to measure Q laying

i also couldnt follow all of his talks found it difficult with my english level and all those eeee aaaa

 

[rolande]

There are however, various reliable and peer reviewed scientific sources any discerning beek should look up, a couple that comes to mind is the excellent series by Bob Binnie

Who, incidentally, rates drone culling as a "legitimate" part of an IPM programme.

 

[Hachi]

Who, incidentally, rates drone culling as a "legitimate" part of an IPM programme.

Ooh must have missed that Rolande have you a link please?

 

[rolande]

Ooh must have missed that Rolande have you a link please?

It's mentioned in his video about the plastic drone foundation:

 

[Ian123]

He also makes a point in saying he doesn’t use the method! As well as stating the obvious draw back of having to stay up with your timings for removal. Everyone is aware varroa prefers drone brood and practicing drone removal has been around for many years, so you could be forgiven for wondering why it’s not caught on.

 

[Hachi]

Bob recognises the plastic drone comb he uses can be used as PART of an overall IPM strategy and/or process subject to adherence to strict timings as Ian says but Bobs' clear, he uses Drone comb to swamp his mating area with his drones not, part of IPM activities.

 

[rolande]

Bob recognises the plastic drone comb he uses can be used as PART of an overall IPM strategy and/or process subject to adherence to strict timings as Ian says but Bobs' clear, he uses Drone comb to swamp his mating area with his drones not, part of IPM activities.

Pretty much what I said isn't it?

rates drone culling as a "legitimate" part of an IPM programme.

But sounds as if most of the customers who are buying it from his shop do so to use it for drone culling. No escaping his clear belief that its a 'legitimate' practice.

 

[Ian123]

But sounds as if most of the customers who are buying it from his shop do so to use it for drone culling. No escaping his clear belief that its a 'legitimate' practice.

Let’s face it lots of things can be described as legitimate but it doesn’t mean there’s not better or it’s good. Shook swarms or sugar rolls could be described as legitimate ipm but the majority find better varroa control methods. McDonald’s is a legitimate restaurant but I can think of places I’d rather go would you send catapults to the Ukraine….it’s ok it’s a legitimate weapon. He makes rather a specific point of saying he doesn’t use this method for Varroa control. The method is also impractical in any sort of numbers.
Just to also add as an example I added drone combs to all my lager hives at home for drone production. The larger did draw complete combs. Strong single boxes 1/4 drone the rest worker so timings and laying patterns are out from day 1. You’d have to have different days for removal for every hive. It should also be said even with added drone comb pumping out mites and drones none of these hives required intervention or treatment other than the normal. So you could ask how effective they actually are.

 

[rolande]

Let’s face it lots of things can be described as legitimate but it doesn’t mean there’s not better or it’s good. Shook swarms or sugar rolls could be described as legitimate ipm but the majority find better varroa control methods. McDonald’s is a legitimate restaurant but I can think of places I’d rather go would you send catapults to the Ukraine….it’s ok it’s a legitimate weapon. He makes rather a specific point of saying he doesn’t use this method for Varroa control. The method is also impractical in any sort of numbers.
Just to also add as an example I added drone combs to all my lager hives at home for drone production. The larger did draw complete combs. Strong single boxes 1/4 drone the rest worker so timings and laying patterns are out from day 1. You’d have to have different days for removal for every hive. It should also be said even with added drone comb pumping out mites and drones none of these hives required intervention or treatment other than the normal. So you could ask how effective they actually are.

My original post was to add an extra perspective to a previous post which had brought Bob binnie's opinions into this thread. This is what's needed in a forum open exchange of information/links to round out conversations. Probably more use to the majority of readers (so they can filter a wide range of oppinions for themselves) than having people saying that 'average' beekeepers won't be able to make something work because of, amongst other things, beer.

 

[Ian123]

(so they can filter a wide range of oppinions for themselves) than having people saying that 'average' beekeepers won't be able to make something work because of, amongst other things, beer.

I was simply inferring some may have a life or other things to do, other drinks are available of course…..so apart from the choice of beverage was there anything incorrect in what I said? It’s amazing how some say they want to inform or discuss but when the drawbacks or issues with their chosen hobby horse are pointed out suddenly get defensive